A very sad commentary on our society.

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#3163167 24-Nov-2023 11:07

shk292: Now I'm totally confused!

Look, it's very simple:

Left-leaning government spends a lot of money on planning and public consultation, often involving using private contractors and consultants to fill in gaps and to provide an extra set of eyes, third party audits etc. in order to try to achieve the best result overall
Right-leaning opposition wangs on about wasting taxpayer money
Process drags on forever leading to no results at all
Voters outraged
Left-leaning government ejected at next election
Right-leaning government fires consultants, cancels everything in progress and guts the public service
Voters initially enraptured by the decisiveness and rapid achievement of the new right-leaning government
Left-leaning opposition wangs on about how those public services might actually be important
Voters outraged
Right-leaning government ejected at next election (goto 1)

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

networkn

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#3163169 24-Nov-2023 11:11

shk292:
networkn:They can afford it if they don't pay $100M to consultants for TWO(T) via the Labour Government.

Sorry if it's a dumb question but what's TWO(T)?
Thought it might be the cycle lane thing but that was only $51M so well below the noise threshold in terms of last government wasting money

Te Whatu Ora

All but two I think of the regions are starting with T.

networkn

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#3163173 24-Nov-2023 11:19

SaltyNZ:

shk292: Now I'm totally confused!

Look, it's very simple:

Left-leaning government spends a lot of money on planning and public consultation, often involving using private contractors and consultants to fill in gaps and to provide an extra set of eyes, third party audits etc. in order to try to achieve the best result overall
Right-leaning opposition wangs on about wasting taxpayer money
Process drags on forever leading to no results at all
Voters outraged
Left-leaning government ejected at next election
Right-leaning government fires consultants, cancels everything in progress and guts the public service
Voters initially enraptured by the decisiveness and rapid achievement of the new right-leaning government
Left-leaning opposition wangs on about how those public services might actually be important
Voters outraged
Right-leaning government ejected at next election (goto 1)

Or in the most recent case, left leaning government spends ridiculous amounts of money on projects that are ill conceived, poorly planned (therefore creating unintended consequences that everyone but them could see a mile off) and advised against, and either never get implemented or so badly implemented, they have no benefit. In spite of promising to be the most transparent government ever, no-one ever finds out what those failed projects actually cost.

msukiwi

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#3163179 24-Nov-2023 11:51

networkn:...no-one ever finds out what those failed projects actually cost.

Sounds just like the Christchurch City Council!

networkn

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#3163183 24-Nov-2023 12:02

msukiwi:

networkn:...no-one ever finds out what those failed projects actually cost.

Sounds just like the Christchurch City Council!

I suspect that someone inside the new Government will 'leak' these costs, with great glee. I'd be particular interested in the cost of Kiwibuild, the actual cost vs projected of the free year of tertiary education (which I had no problem with in concept but believe it should have been on a students final year of tertiary education rather than the first) and the actual cost of the gun buy out scheme (which served the purpose of getting people willing to surrender their weapons to do so).

MikeAqua

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#3163186 24-Nov-2023 12:33

MikeB4:

The so called modern wealthy western Aotearoa is a myth for those in our community that are not housed or poorly housed. It is a myth for those who have no access to healthcare, three meals a day, education, warmth, shelter and adequate clothing. Think about it when going to work complaining about road cones or hold ups in your Tesla.

The lack of housing is fundamental problem in this country. It prevents people relocating to find work. There are multiple regions in NZ where there are few opportunities and the best thing for people to do economically is move away to find work.

Mike

Dingbatt

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#3163187 24-Nov-2023 12:48

MikeB4:

Think about it when going to work complaining about road cones or hold ups in your Tesla.

Well, when I was going to work at 4.30 this morning in my Tesla* that I paid for out of savings after tax, I didn’t really give too much thought to the road cones that my tax had paid for. Nor did I give much thought to those less fortunate that my tax supports. I was concentrating on what lay ahead in my work for the day.

*Why Teslas all of a sudden? It used to be BMWs, but I guess the politics of envy need to move with the (eco)times.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#3163194 24-Nov-2023 13:42

Dingbatt:

Well, when I was going to work at 4.30 this morning in my Tesla* that I paid for out of savings after tax, I didn’t really give too much thought to the road cones that my tax had paid for. Nor did I give much thought to those less fortunate that my tax supports. I was concentrating on what lay ahead in my work for the day.

*Why Teslas all of a sudden? It used to be BMWs, but I guess the politics of envy need to move with the (eco)times.

I was not having a dig at Tesla owners as such, you could insert our vehicle(Mitsubishi) I was merely highlighting the perceptions of life and its problems in Aotearoa. However the CEO of Tesla is definitely part of the problem.

Handle9

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#3163222 24-Nov-2023 15:51

networkn:
SaltyNZ:

Look, it's very simple:

Left-leaning government spends a lot of money on planning and public consultation, often involving using private contractors and consultants to fill in gaps and to provide an extra set of eyes, third party audits etc. in order to try to achieve the best result overall

Right-leaning opposition wangs on about wasting taxpayer money

Process drags on forever leading to no results at all

Voters outraged

Left-leaning government ejected at next election

Right-leaning government fires consultants, cancels everything in progress and guts the public service

Voters initially enraptured by the decisiveness and rapid achievement of the new right-leaning government

Left-leaning opposition wangs on about how those public services might actually be important

Voters outraged

Right-leaning government ejected at next election (goto 1)

Or in the most recent case, left leaning government spends ridiculous amounts of money on projects that are ill conceived, poorly planned (therefore creating unintended consequences that everyone but them could see a mile off) and advised against, and either never get implemented or so badly implemented, they have no benefit. In spite of promising to be the most transparent government ever, no-one ever finds out what those failed projects actually cost.

Why don’t you two go and bitch about each others teams in the politics section. It’s not adding anything good to this thread.

ezbee

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#3163433 25-Nov-2023 10:19

Handle9 had it...
""
That’s long gone in Auckland and most larger cities.

I think Kirk’s vision of what people need is still as applicable today as it ever was. People need “someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work, and something to hope for”. The final one has gone for a lot of people in society and this is the consequence of it.
""

Looking at the direction the supermarket bill has been going in last few years.
The pandemic bump did not go away and we are told due to international prices our costs won't change.

Kirk hardly imagined that something as basic as 'something to eat' might have to be added.

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#3163514 25-Nov-2023 13:26

Inflation going down doesn't mean prices going down. That's deflation. Generally speaking, prices are not going to go down again. They just aren't going to rise as fast. There are some specific things where the prices are more volatile (fuel being the main one), but that's the big picture.

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itey

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#3164420 27-Nov-2023 12:50

I would argue society is in this mess because the societal contract has been broken.
The classic idea that you will succeed and be rewarded if you work hard - this is however not the case anymore.
Many people work hard but are not getting ahead, hell many are struggling despite working hard.
Unrest is occurring because the contract has been broken.fix thr issues and the unrest will dissolve.

Tinkerisk

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#3164449 27-Nov-2023 14:41

Rikkitic:

GV27:

What happens in other countries doesn't matter. It's not relevant to what happened in this one. That's what people living here have to deal with.

"It was worse somewhere else so let's not contemplate whether there's a serious underlying problem" is a recipe for a race to the bottom.

We live in an interconnected world. What happens internationally does affect us. The price of fuel, for example. Everything overseas is relevant to us.

Not only that, you should be interested. Here are a few (small) examples:

Sales of real sheep's wool are at rock bottom, shepherds with thousands of sheep are running around here who can no longer sell their own high-quality wool at the minimum price due to falling demand (vegan). The warehouses are full and the consumption of sheep meat is declining. What impact will this have on you?
People are considering cutting back on worldwide holiday travel because of climate change (and the recession). Instead of Germans, Americans and Chinese will probably visit you in future as well, instead or not? What impact will this have on you?
Due to the increased transport prices, local fruit and vegetables, wine and other agricultural products will become (more) competitive again. What impact will this have on you?

And don't blame Europe again, it's just the result of global change that everyone is forced to adapt to.

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GV27

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#3164452 27-Nov-2023 14:53

Tinkerisk:

Not only that, you should be interested. Here are a few (small) examples:

Sales of real sheep's wool are at rock bottom, shepherds with thousands of sheep are running around here who can no longer sell their own high-quality wool at the minimum price due to falling demand (vegan). The warehouses are full and the consumption of sheep meat is declining. What impact will this have on you?
People are considering cutting back on worldwide holiday travel because of climate change (and the recession). Instead of Germans, more Americans and Chinese will probably visit you in future as well. What impact will this have on you?
Due to the increased transport prices, local fruit and vegetables, wine and other agricultural products will become (more) competitive again. What impact will this have on you?

Cool. Stuff effects other stuff. Not really disputing that.

What I'm saying is the fact other people had it tough during lockdown didn't make what people went through in lockdown here any easier to deal with.

Tinkerisk

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#3164456 27-Nov-2023 15:02

GV27:

Cool. Stuff effects other stuff. Not really disputing that.

What I'm saying is the fact other people had it tough during lockdown didn't make what people went through in lockdown here any easier to deal with.

Yes, but all the signs indicate that this will intensify even more in the medium term.

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