Maoris beating their kids. What the hell happened!

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#431046 25-Jan-2011 14:49

gchiu: BTW, I don't think this is a "racial" issue but a cultural one. If you have a culture that idolizes violence then it's somewhat inevitable.

gchiu: It has been suggested that violence towards women, and children in Maori society is a cultural issue [...]

In what way does Maori culture idolise violence?, and secondly what is the basis of your suggestion that violence towards women and children in Maori society has a cultural cause?

sittingduckz

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#431067 25-Jan-2011 15:39

IlDuce:
BraaiGuy: I have yet to see any sort of poverty in NZ. When people here bring up poverty I simply have to laugh. There is no poverty in NZ

My friend would beg to differ, lol. On the dole he gets $220 a week, his rent is $170 a week. I could go on about the things he has to do in order to live another week, but this sums it up: he has to walk to the supermarket to have a dump cos he can't afford TP.

I am not trying cause offence here, but does your friend smoke?

I find a lot of people struggling seem to have money for smokes alcohol & sky TV etc and yet have trouble feeding there kids and paying for necessities.

I do not know your friend at all and do not mean any offence, just curious.

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

MikeB4

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#431270 26-Jan-2011 08:30

I worked for 23+ years for the organisation at the front line of this problem. This is not an issue restricted to any Race , Socio-economic Group or Education level. It is spread over all sectors of our society.

Until we recognize this accept it we wil not begin the fight to stop it. It is way to easy to pigeon hole the issue and neatly go on with our lives.

It is the responsibility of all New Zealanders to watch out for our young New Zealanders , we currently have one of the worst environments for children OECD and that is a disgrace.

It is not just the responsibility of CYF, the Police, the Schools, it is YOU, ME, all of us we must stop this, we cannot continue to turn away and say it's not in my neighborhood because it is.

gchiu

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#431272 26-Jan-2011 08:36

What insight did you gain in your 23+ years as to why this issue based on statistics is fourfold worse in the Māori population?

maverick

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#431275 26-Jan-2011 08:43

gchiu: What insight did you gain in your 23+ years as to why this issue based on statistics is fourfold worse in the Māori population?

Very good question and I toatlly agree with KiwiNZ, this is all our problem. But why do the stats seem to be disproportionate to Maoris, I guess for a lot of people we just don't understand the mentailty of people that can do this in the first place and we tend to pigieon hole them because it's easier maybe ?

This really is not a simple answer and pretty hard topic to discuss but I strongly believe it's important, I have my views on the smacking laws and discipline, i also think they may be related but thats just my opinion and we have to live with what we have now in the way of laws and acceptable practice, but I also agree with KiwiNZ .. this is all our problem and we should be ashamed if we ignore it.

Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well

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#431314 26-Jan-2011 10:26

gchiu: What insight did you gain in your 23+ years as to why this issue based on statistics is fourfold worse in the Māori population?

Quite simple , they are disproportionately disadvantaged in our society. We like to think that New Zealand is this nice equal mixed race paradise but the harsh reality is it is not. The Maori suffered badly in the past and suffering is still ongoing. The wrongs have yet to be completely righted and gulf between the Races bridged.

We have come some distance but this issue is but one symptom that shows we have a long way to go.

MikeB4

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#431319 26-Jan-2011 10:33

When someone is caught in a poverty trap the pressures are huge, the ability to escape that trap are limited and the opportunities few. In many sad cases the wrong decisions are made and they end up in the dreadful spiral
of drugs that all to often ends up with P and then disaster.

There is also the complex issue of gangs to which there is no simple answers . True equality of opportunity would go along way to eliminate the urge to join.

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NonprayingMantis

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#431320 26-Jan-2011 10:34

KiwiNZ:
gchiu: What insight did you gain in your 23+ years as to why this issue based on statistics is fourfold worse in the Māori population?

Quite simple , they are disproportionately disadvantaged in our society. We like to think that New Zealand is this nice equal mixed race paradise but the harsh reality is it is not. The Maori suffered badly in the past and suffering is still ongoing. The wrongs have yet to be completely righted and gulf between the Races bridged.

We have come some distance but this issue is but one symptom that shows we have a long way to go.

they are disadvantaged and so therefore they have no choice but to beat the crap out of their kids more?

I don't buy that at all.

Even if people agree that they are disadvataged to that degree, then maybe that could only be used as an excuse for disproportionate shoplifting, smoking, or disproportionate university education, i.e. the sort of thing that comes from being disproportionately poor and disadvantaged in a society.

there is absolutely no excuse for beating your kids, no matter how poor, uneduated, or disadvantaged you are in society.

gchiu

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#431321 26-Jan-2011 10:34

So, the Maori who live here are somehow worse off than the PIs who come here from the islands with nothing??

MikeB4

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#431327 26-Jan-2011 10:55

NonprayingMantis:
KiwiNZ:
gchiu: What insight did you gain in your 23+ years as to why this issue based on statistics is fourfold worse in the Māori population?

Quite simple , they are disproportionately disadvantaged in our society. We like to think that New Zealand is this nice equal mixed race paradise but the harsh reality is it is not. The Maori suffered badly in the past and suffering is still ongoing. The wrongs have yet to be completely righted and gulf between the Races bridged.

We have come some distance but this issue is but one symptom that shows we have a long way to go.

they are disadvantaged and so therefore they have no choice but to beat the crap out of their kids more?

I don't buy that at all.

Even if people agree that they are disadvataged to that degree, then maybe that could only be used as an excuse for disproportionate shoplifting, smoking, or disproportionate university education, i.e. the sort of thing that comes from being disproportionately poor and disadvantaged in a society.

there is absolutely no excuse for beating your kids, no matter how poor, uneduated, or disadvantaged you are in society.

I was trying to explain to levels of stress , the levels frustrations, the levels of hopelessness and anger that this can cause the rage.

I was not providing an excuse. Someone asked for my insight as to why the high incidents in the Maori population.

We as a Nation as a whole has to recognise it, accept it, address it, even if it means that middle class New Zealand pays more taxes to address it.

It's indicative of the problem that $2.5 billion was found to bail out the investors in Southland Finance but Plunket
and Starship Hospital have to do fundraising and CYF are woefully under funded.

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#431331 26-Jan-2011 11:01

I don't buy this. This latest child who died was apparently found on the shoulder of his alleged killer who was trying to play a PS3 game.

This is not an issue that CYFs or the govt needs to, or even can fix. Maori need to fix this themselves.

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#431333 26-Jan-2011 11:06

gchiu: I don't buy this. This latest child who died was apparently found on the shoulder of his alleged killer who was trying to play a PS3 game.

This is not an issue that CYFs or the govt needs to, or even can fix. Maori need to fix this themselves.

So because of ONE example you right off all others?

And you draw your conclusion purely from press reports.

With respect , you have no idea what you are talking about.

gchiu

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#431337 26-Jan-2011 11:45

I find it disturbing that 1000s of Maori are willing to get together in huis and join protest marches up and down the country to protest the loss of rights in the foreshore and seabed issues, but there is a lack of perceived organised response to the brutality shown to their own tamariki by their own people.

The original poster also lamented this issue ( I think ).

MikeB4

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#431341 26-Jan-2011 12:05

gchiu: I find it disturbing that 1000s of Maori are willing to get together in huis and join protest marches up and down the country to protest the loss of rights in the foreshore and seabed issues, but there is a lack of perceived organised response to the brutality shown to their own tamariki by their own people.

The original poster also lamented this issue ( I think ).

You just do not get do you. So are you saying that the Maori people are allowed no other issues to be concerned about?

Is that the same for Pakeha New Zealanders? given your logic Pakeha New Zealanders at present must not protest , mining, Whaling or any other issue because Pakeha children are also abused.

gchiu

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#431342 26-Jan-2011 12:12

It seems to be treated as an XOR, and not an AND/OR.

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