Why are people not held accountable for their own actions these days ?

Forums › Off topic › Why are people not held accountable for their own actions these days ?

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Networkn
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#762295 14-Feb-2013 13:59

Klipspringer:
networkn:

Ah Cmon, it's hardly NZ alone, take a trip to Australia or America, England, and Whilst I haven't been to SA personally, I know and have had similar discussions about the warnings on products with South Africans.

It's the way things are. Fighting it is pointless.

I disagree. Only in NZ have I seen the following

-          Why in our kitchen here at work is there a sign telling me I need to wash my hands before handling food?

-          Why is there a sign in the toilet telling me I need to wash my hands after having a pee?

-          Major warning signs at all pedestrian crossings in Wellington? Look left look right ... Stay alive.

The above just came to me. There are plenty more examples. NZ is a society where most people cannot think for themselves and need to be told what to do. Its just the way it is and its far more evident here than anywhere else.

LOL. The presence of signs is not an indication of the citizens but of the government and infrastructure control. I don't feel the need for as many signs, it makes me cringe, and I can assure you I do all of those things without the requirement of a sign, because without doing them before the signs I'd be almost certainly dead.

nathan

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#762297 14-Feb-2013 14:03

I liken this to (some/most?) modern parents not letting their kiddiewinks play outside in the mud and stuff dirt in their mouths etc

they get wrapped in cotton wool, they don't built up immunity to things that our forebares did, then they get really sick from common bugs etc

Klipspringer

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#762302 14-Feb-2013 14:06

networkn:

LOL. The presence of signs is not an indication of the citizens but of the government and infrastructure control. I don't feel the need for as many signs, it makes me cringe, and I can assure you I do all of those things without the requirement of a sign, because without doing them before the signs I'd be almost certainly dead.

I hear you ..
But if you relying on the sign to remind you to do the things that generates a problem.

Add that’s why we find ourselves in this situation today. The council in Wellington for instance being blamed for people being run over by busses. Council should have installed signs to remind the people to look left/right etc ...

This woman drank too much coke. The outcome would have been exactly the same if she ate too much ice cream or as somebody else said too much water. Just because coke has caffeine now makes it require a warning label???

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#762303 14-Feb-2013 14:07

networkn: Sugar is worse, it's something I struggle with so much! I have tried cutting down, but eventually the cravings are unbearable.

Have a read of this: The Amazing Similarities Between this Toxic Sugar and Alcohol

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NZtechfreak

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#762305 14-Feb-2013 14:09

Klipspringer: Just because coke has caffeine now makes it require a warning label???

No, excessive coke consumption is harmful to health, and that is why it should carry a warning label. Just like cigarettes and alcohol.

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#762306 14-Feb-2013 14:09

Klipspringer:
networkn:

LOL. The presence of signs is not an indication of the citizens but of the government and infrastructure control. I don't feel the need for as many signs, it makes me cringe, and I can assure you I do all of those things without the requirement of a sign, because without doing them before the signs I'd be almost certainly dead.

I hear you ..
But if you relying on the sign to remind you to do the things that generates a problem.

Add that’s why we find ourselves in this situation today. The council in Wellington for instance being blamed for people being run over by busses. Council should have installed signs to remind the people to look left/right etc ...

This woman drank too much coke. The outcome would have been exactly the same if she ate too much ice cream or as somebody else said too much water. Just because coke has caffeine now makes it require a warning label???

What I am saying, is that you appear to be assuming that the presence of a sign, infers a reliance on the sign. I think you will find it's a matter of legal liability. No sign, no waiver of liability. It's an extension of the more litigous nature of people in this day and age.

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ajobbins

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#762308 14-Feb-2013 14:11

NZtechfreak:
Klipspringer: Just because coke has caffeine now makes it require a warning label???

No, excessive coke consumption is harmful to health, and that is why it should carry a warning label. Just like cigarettes and alcohol.

Excessive water consumption is harmful to health also - even in the same quantities that this lady was drinking in coke. Do we need to label all the taps in your house now?

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BlueShift

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#762310 14-Feb-2013 14:11

ajobbins:
networkn: Sugar is worse, it's something I struggle with so much! I have tried cutting down, but eventually the cravings are unbearable.

Have a read of this: The Amazing Similarities Between this Toxic Sugar and Alcohol

Luckily in NZ our soft drinks are sweetened with good, healthy, natural cane sugar - not that awful HFCS stuff. So stay away from the fruit juice, drink heaps of coke & V and you'll be fine.

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#762314 14-Feb-2013 14:14

nathan:
KiwiNZ:
nathan:
networkn:
NZtechfreak: I think the OP is taking liberties with the coroners findings here. The coroner was suggesting that Coke should print a warning about the recommended caffiene intake, which is entirely reasonable - you'll note energy drinks already print this information. There is no suggestion of blaming Coca Cola here for this womans folly, personally I think the OP should get down off their high-horse on this one.

This. I read this report and thought it sensible. I also know Dave Crerar personally for many years and anyone who knows him, knows he believes completely in personal responsibility. Having said that, warnings are part of life.

I don't know David at all, but my opinion on coroners has slowly gone down over the years

Especially after the coroner did an inquest into a drowning in the Clutha river and suggested danger signs be displayed on the river. If you don't know the Clutha, its 338KMs long.

Barbwire fence the beaches to stop people drowning there too?

Doubts, but river signs to be placed

Signs warning against swimming in the Clutha River are likely to be installed before summer but the Clutha Management Committee remains dubious about their merits.

Otago Southland regional coroner David Crerar made the recommendation about warning signs after a 16-year-old Dunedin youth drowned in the river near Roxburgh.

http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/111460/doubts-river-signs-be-placed

So we should make no attempt to try and save lives.

I see no harm to anyone for warning signs.

You educate people to not jump in a fast flowing river where you can't see the bottom

What happens if he jumped in the river further upstream or downstream? Put a sign there too?

Where does this end? eventually we'll have people dying because the signs fall off and hit them on the head

I like to think we still live in a caring "society", however reading this thread one could start to seriously doubt that.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SaltyNZ

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#762323 14-Feb-2013 14:18

Klipspringer:
networkn:

LOL. The presence of signs is not an indication of the citizens but of the government and infrastructure control. I don't feel the need for as many signs, it makes me cringe, and I can assure you I do all of those things without the requirement of a sign, because without doing them before the signs I'd be almost certainly dead.

I hear you ..
But if you relying on the sign to remind you to do the things that generates a problem.

Add that’s why we find ourselves in this situation today. The council in Wellington for instance being blamed for people being run over by busses. Council should have installed signs to remind the people to look left/right etc ...

This woman drank too much coke. The outcome would have been exactly the same if she ate too much ice cream or as somebody else said too much water. Just because coke has caffeine now makes it require a warning label???

In the NSW town of Kiama there's a hole in the rocks on the coast called 'The Blowhole.' Now, I'm sure you can get the picture just from the name. The top of the rocks is (very roughly) flat with a large vertical shaft down that turns horizontal and opens into the ocean. On a rough day, the waves come pounding in through the bottom of the hole and accelerate up to explode out the top in an awesome column of water & spray.

Despite the (seemingly obvious) danger of wet slippery rocks in front of enormous geyser of salt water exploding out of big hole at unpredictable intervals, people used to fall in. So they put up signs and a chest-high wire fence around it. A few years ago, someone CLIMBED OVER THE FENCE to kill themselves by falling in.

The only thing they could have done to make it any safer was to pour a hundred tons of concrete into the hole to fill it up.

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ajobbins

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#762324 14-Feb-2013 14:18

BlueShift: Luckily in NZ our soft drinks are sweetened with good, healthy, natural cane sugar - not that awful HFCS stuff. So stay away from the fruit juice, drink heaps of coke & V and you'll be fine.

Cane Sugar (ie. Sucrose) is still about 50% fructose

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Klipspringer

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#762330 14-Feb-2013 14:23

NZtechfreak:
Klipspringer: Just because coke has caffeine now makes it require a warning label???

No, excessive coke consumption is harmful to health, and that is why it should carry a warning label. Just like cigarettes and alcohol.

Excessive anything is harmful to health.

What makes coke different?

I’m pretty sure there is already something on the coke label about Caffeine. Anybody know what it says?

keewee01

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#762349 14-Feb-2013 14:38

KiwiNZ:
nathan:
networkn:
NZtechfreak: I think the OP is taking liberties with the coroners findings here. The coroner was suggesting that Coke should print a warning about the recommended caffiene intake, which is entirely reasonable - you'll note energy drinks already print this information. There is no suggestion of blaming Coca Cola here for this womans folly, personally I think the OP should get down off their high-horse on this one.

This. I read this report and thought it sensible. I also know Dave Crerar personally for many years and anyone who knows him, knows he believes completely in personal responsibility. Having said that, warnings are part of life.

I don't know David at all, but my opinion on coroners has slowly gone down over the years

Especially after the coroner did an inquest into a drowning in the Clutha river and suggested danger signs be displayed on the river. If you don't know the Clutha, its 338KMs long.

Barbwire fence the beaches to stop people drowning there too?

Doubts, but river signs to be placed

Signs warning against swimming in the Clutha River are likely to be installed before summer but the Clutha Management Committee remains dubious about their merits.

Otago Southland regional coroner David Crerar made the recommendation about warning signs after a 16-year-old Dunedin youth drowned in the river near Roxburgh.

http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/111460/doubts-river-signs-be-placed

So we should make no attempt to try and save lives.

I see no harm to anyone for warning signs.

This is the nanny state and why the nanny state is such an issue - people forget to think for themselves and expect EVERYTHING to be safe if there isn't a warning on it. The nanny state destroys common sense and thinking for yourselves.

The more we sign post things or put on warning labels, the less people think for themselves.

The problem is getting worse all the time and has been for decades.

People need to be taught (or made) to think for themselves again and not rely on others so much.

It is like the people who always jump in and start a new forum topic with out looking or search to see if there is a thread on that topic already. The same people, again and again and again.

Where there is a hidden or genuine serious danger, yes I agree that there should be something to bring it to peoples attention. But otherwise let people think for themselves.

Let common sense prevail (which is probably impossible when politics enter into it...)

keewee01

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#762355 14-Feb-2013 14:42

KiwiNZ:
nathan:
KiwiNZ:
nathan:
networkn:
NZtechfreak: I think the OP is taking liberties with the coroners findings here. The coroner was suggesting that Coke should print a warning about the recommended caffiene intake, which is entirely reasonable - you'll note energy drinks already print this information. There is no suggestion of blaming Coca Cola here for this womans folly, personally I think the OP should get down off their high-horse on this one.

This. I read this report and thought it sensible. I also know Dave Crerar personally for many years and anyone who knows him, knows he believes completely in personal responsibility. Having said that, warnings are part of life.

I don't know David at all, but my opinion on coroners has slowly gone down over the years

Especially after the coroner did an inquest into a drowning in the Clutha river and suggested danger signs be displayed on the river. If you don't know the Clutha, its 338KMs long.

Barbwire fence the beaches to stop people drowning there too?

Doubts, but river signs to be placed

Signs warning against swimming in the Clutha River are likely to be installed before summer but the Clutha Management Committee remains dubious about their merits.

Otago Southland regional coroner David Crerar made the recommendation about warning signs after a 16-year-old Dunedin youth drowned in the river near Roxburgh.

http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/111460/doubts-river-signs-be-placed

So we should make no attempt to try and save lives.

I see no harm to anyone for warning signs.

You educate people to not jump in a fast flowing river where you can't see the bottom

What happens if he jumped in the river further upstream or downstream? Put a sign there too?

Where does this end? eventually we'll have people dying because the signs fall off and hit them on the head

I like to think we still live in a caring "society", however reading this thread one could start to seriously doubt that.

Caring would be teaching people to think for themselves... remember the old Chinese Proverb Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

A sign might help stop someone drowning today, but it doesn't help them tomorrow when they get run over by a car because they weren't aware of their surroundings/environment and there was no sign.

nathan

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#762357 14-Feb-2013 14:43

ajobbins:
BlueShift: Luckily in NZ our soft drinks are sweetened with good, healthy, natural cane sugar - not that awful HFCS stuff. So stay away from the fruit juice, drink heaps of coke & V and you'll be fine.

Cane Sugar (ie. Sucrose) is still about 50% fructose

But that's not manufactured from inedible corn, that American farmers only grow because of their government subsidies

The average American eats 17KG of HFCS a year

And they wonder why they're fat and sick

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