Obliged to give up passwords and pins to NZ Customs?

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160 posts

Master Geek
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#1219304 21-Jan-2015 16:32

KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

MikeB4

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#1219305 21-Jan-2015 16:41

michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

michael001

160 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#1219306 21-Jan-2015 16:43

KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

MikeB4

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#1219309 21-Jan-2015 16:47

michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

I assume that as she takes the same Laptop to them that she takes over seas, and I am assuming that the info is stored on the HDD, if so that is not very secure, there are online secure ways to do this.

michael001

160 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#1219314 21-Jan-2015 16:52

KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

I assume that as she takes the same Laptop to them that she takes over seas, and I am assuming that the info is stored on the HDD, if so that is not very secure, there are online secure ways to do this.

The entire hard drive is encrypted, not you or I or a bunch of nitwit customs officials will ever decrypt it. So the data is safe.

In her case there are not 'online ways' to do it. The heart readings, blood pressures are taken in the patients homes, she also brings laboratory results and x-rays to patients who cannot leave there homes.

MikeB4

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#1219318 21-Jan-2015 16:57

michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

I assume that as she takes the same Laptop to them that she takes over seas, and I am assuming that the info is stored on the HDD, if so that is not very secure, there are online secure ways to do this.

The entire hard drive is encrypted, not you or I or a bunch of nitwit customs officials will ever decrypt it. So the data is safe.

In her case there are not 'online ways' to do it. The heart readings, blood pressures are taken in the patients homes, she also brings laboratory results and x-rays to patients who cannot leave there homes.

Calling the Customs officers nitwits is uncalled for .
As for "So the data is safe" famous last words.

michael001

160 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#1219331 21-Jan-2015 17:06

KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

I assume that as she takes the same Laptop to them that she takes over seas, and I am assuming that the info is stored on the HDD, if so that is not very secure, there are online secure ways to do this.

The entire hard drive is encrypted, not you or I or a bunch of nitwit customs officials will ever decrypt it. So the data is safe.

In her case there are not 'online ways' to do it. The heart readings, blood pressures are taken in the patients homes, she also brings laboratory results and x-rays to patients who cannot leave there homes.

Calling the Customs officers nitwits is uncalled for .
As for "So the data is safe" famous last words.

I am glad that we finally agree on one thing, if she hands over that password to them and it'll curtains for sure.

The nitwit comment is called for though, look at the solution they came up - asking for peoples passwords. That's the BEST they came up with. Top shelf strategists, right there.

Thanks for the discussion.

Equinox IT

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SepticSceptic

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#1219335 21-Jan-2015 17:11

michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

Hard drive failure ? Especially while travelling - more jostles, bumps and scrapes than the average laptop ...

BlakJak

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#1219336 21-Jan-2015 17:11

michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

I assume that as she takes the same Laptop to them that she takes over seas, and I am assuming that the info is stored on the HDD, if so that is not very secure, there are online secure ways to do this.

The entire hard drive is encrypted, not you or I or a bunch of nitwit customs officials will ever decrypt it. So the data is safe.

In her case there are not 'online ways' to do it. The heart readings, blood pressures are taken in the patients homes, she also brings laboratory results and x-rays to patients who cannot leave there homes.

Calling the Customs officers nitwits is uncalled for .
As for "So the data is safe" famous last words.

I am glad that we finally agree on one thing, if she hands over that password to them and it'll curtains for sure.

The nitwit comment is called for though, look at the solution they came up - asking for peoples passwords. That's the BEST they came up with. Top shelf strategists, right there.

Thanks for the discussion.

No, the human layer is the simple one. I suspect the vast majority of people would (ultimately) give up their password. The chances of forcefully decrypting most things in a timely fashion are very, very low.

See also https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/09/us-customs-can-and-will-seize-laptops-and-cellphones-demand-passwords/

This advice may also be useful:

https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-travelers-carrying-digital-devices
Since it seems we're much closer to this now, than I had hoped...

No signature to see here, move along...

michael001

160 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#1219342 21-Jan-2015 17:25

BlakJak:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ:
michael001:
KiwiNZ: If you are that concerned don't take your computer across borders.

I sometimes wish I view the world as I did when I was a child - everything seemed so simple.

A friend of mine works in the health industry, she travels frequently between NZ and the US on business, with a laptop which could have patient health information on it.

Protected Health Information breaches in the US are devastating for a company or individual - even minor breaches end careers and have incurred multi-million dollar fines.

I am curious, what do you think she should do?

Find another secure way to access the info. Keeping it on a Laptop one is travelling with is very bad and it concerns me that a health professional would do that.

Why would that concern you? She visits elderly patients, in there homes.

I assume that as she takes the same Laptop to them that she takes over seas, and I am assuming that the info is stored on the HDD, if so that is not very secure, there are online secure ways to do this.

The entire hard drive is encrypted, not you or I or a bunch of nitwit customs officials will ever decrypt it. So the data is safe.

In her case there are not 'online ways' to do it. The heart readings, blood pressures are taken in the patients homes, she also brings laboratory results and x-rays to patients who cannot leave there homes.

Calling the Customs officers nitwits is uncalled for .
As for "So the data is safe" famous last words.

I am glad that we finally agree on one thing, if she hands over that password to them and it'll curtains for sure.

The nitwit comment is called for though, look at the solution they came up - asking for peoples passwords. That's the BEST they came up with. Top shelf strategists, right there.

Thanks for the discussion.

No, the human layer is the simple one. I suspect the vast majority of people would (ultimately) give up their password. The chances of forcefully decrypting most things in a timely fashion are very, very low.

See also https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/09/us-customs-can-and-will-seize-laptops-and-cellphones-demand-passwords/

This advice may also be useful:

https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-travelers-carrying-digital-devices
Since it seems we're much closer to this now, than I had hoped...

So the plan should be - everyone refuse to give passwords.

NZ Customs grinds to halt - forced to come up with new plan.

I'll take a book to read, wearing my favorite Andy Defresne smile on my gob.

MikeB4

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#1219359 21-Jan-2015 17:34

michael001:

So the plan should be - everyone refuse to give passwords.

NZ Customs grinds to halt - forced to come up with new plan.

I'll take a book to read, wearing my favorite Andy Defresne smile on my gob.

that will probably get your devices seized.

you need to edit the quotes to reduce the post realestate

Geektastic

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#1219362 21-Jan-2015 17:49

Copy your secure stuff onto an SD card and hide it in plain sight amongst the other SD cards in your camera bag. They'd have to really want to find something before it would occur to them to check those too I expect.

Or use IronKey USB sticks....

Or have someone else encrypt the drive but not give you the password until you call them and give them the OK....

connector

30 posts

Geek

#1219365 21-Jan-2015 18:03

this is pretty concerning in my opinion. dotcom is always inviting young girls to stay with him (which maybe questionable for other reasons) but i guess customs think he might be using them to launder money or something. the article says "she was detained for other reasons"

nz customs are over the top to be honest, one of the harshest in the world. i remember coming back from australia once and getting questioned, "why did you only go to australia for 2 days?" err because i had work on monday?
it was a really odd question to be honest. i've not had any issues with them besides that apart from the occasional "bomb swipe" i know this is pretty standard now but when it first happened i was like, you want to swipe me for what?

i think thats pretty appalling they can legally detain someone and ask them to hand over all usernames and passwords when they've not commited a crime.

SaltyNZ

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#1219386 21-Jan-2015 18:52

connector:
nz customs are over the top to be honest, one of the harshest in the world.

I beg to differ. In Auckland at least I have always found them to be polite, professional, helpful and friendly. The only time I have ever had the dreaded SSSS on my boarding card (because I forgot my US Visa Waiver had expired, and so I had to get a new one literally 5 minutes before I checked in, no doubt) I got the extra checking with a very minimum of hassle, and they were really nice about it.

First guy, after the metal detectors - 'Excuse me sir, if you could just step over here with me for a moment' - just off to the side, not out the back. He goes over me with the hand wand.

'Can I ask your name, sir?'
'Simon Green'
'And what's your destination today, Mr. Green?'
'San Francisco, for an Oracle conference.'
'Oh, that sounds nice. Is that for work?'
'Yes, I work for 2degrees; Oracle are one of our suppliers.'
'Oh, my (mum/sister/someone) is with 2degrees, (he/she) really seems to like you guys. Good place to work?'

By this time he's done, and that's it. Next stop: the bomb swab after the metal detector at the gates.

Same set of questions, but they started with 'I'm really sorry about this, sir. I know it's a hassle, but it's the rules these days I'm afraid.' Bit of extra pleasant chatter while they wait for the sniffer to finish checking and I put my shoes back on.

They ask all the questions and get the job done, but they're really good about it. I rate them very highly. At San Francisco airport they're not too bad either, but at LAX you always feel like they're a hair's breadth from kicking you to the ground and ramming an M-16 into the back of your head. Mind you, if I had to process thousands of tired, angry idiots every day I'd probably feel the same.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Rikkitic

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#1219393 21-Jan-2015 19:01

connector:

nz customs are over the top to be honest, one of the harshest in the world.

I agree. I have been grilled by some pretty dumb NZ agents. Also encountered some very decent ones. Also met dumb ones in other countries.

I have dual citizenship and was once held up for hours (no exaggeration) by one idiot who couldn’t get past the idea that I must have drugs or pornography simply because I was carrying a Dutch passport. While he went over me again and again, made me roll up my sleeves, kept me waiting while he tried to think of something else to look for, went off to consult with superiors, etc., I stood at the counter and watched hundreds of mules in suits marching past unchallenged from one flight after another. Yes, Customs agents have jobs to do and not all are carrying nazi complexes but some really are just dumb and/or incompetent and that cannot be got around.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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