How long should what you say have consequences for?

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#2616125 4-Dec-2020 09:42

So, for any one here over the age of about 40 who ever used 'eenie meenie miney moe' on the playground should be stood down from any senior or management role. These lyrics are horrendous, but on every playground.

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

networkn

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#2616185 4-Dec-2020 09:48

MikeB4:

The timing of the reinstatement following results last weekend the Pumas have a chance if not a very outside chance to win the competition is some what convenient and suspicious. Rugby world wide has a history of turning a blind eye to racial issues for the good of the game and because is only a sport.

Edit; this concludes my involvement here.

Sigh. Did you read all three players have been stood down for that game? They won't be involved.

gzt

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#2616590 5-Dec-2020 12:09

Racist tweets are serious and some of these were more serious than most even if they were seven years ago. No idea about the other two players I have not seen those tweets. Suspension was the right thing for confidence in the game. Those who say suspension was completely unnecessary I disagree with that 100%.

Suspension also provides a period for administration to figure out if this is truly in the past as it were, or an ongoing thing. Imo the suspension was ended too soon to provide confidence during that period for anyone coming forward with recent experience, from that point of view it's not good.

Suspension also provides a period for administration to figure out how to move forward and provide as much healing as can be done for something like this. This might include some education for the players, incorporating some new practices at club level whatever. That has not been announced there are indications maybe that will happen later or maybe not.

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#2616594 5-Dec-2020 12:26

Ultimately it's up to the Argentinian fans and public to decide if they are happy with the process applied. Looking at the timeline the tweets in question were pretty close to Matera's early professional days in South Africa so you have wonder what that's all about

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/rugby/pablo-matera-stripped-of-argentina-captaincy-after-xenophobic-tweets-including-about-sa/amp/

I'd guess there are some South Africans not happy after seeing those tweets.

networkn

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#2616834 6-Dec-2020 01:11

gzt: Racist tweets are serious and some of these were more serious than most even if they were seven years ago. No idea about the other two players I have not seen those tweets. Suspension was the right thing for confidence in the game. Those who say suspension was completely unnecessary I disagree with that 100%.

Suspension also provides a period for administration to figure out if this is truly in the past as it were, or an ongoing thing. Imo the suspension was ended too soon to provide confidence during that period for anyone coming forward with recent experience, from that point of view it's not good.

Suspension also provides a period for administration to figure out how to move forward and provide as much healing as can be done for something like this. This might include some education for the players, incorporating some new practices at club level whatever. That has not been announced there are indications maybe that will happen later or maybe not.

The early reports were he was sacked as captain, not suspended, it looked like it was leading to more serious things, I felt that was a bridge too far. However, I am inclined to agree suspension pending the results of an investigation would have been the correct way to handle it and I am relatively surprised to see the investigation completed so quickly, though from where I stand he seems geniunely remorseful, strongly condemned his earlier actions and doesn't seem to have recurred in sharing those views or others like them since. It's possible steps like counselling requirements or sensitivity training will be required but never made public.

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#2616907 6-Dec-2020 12:37

sittingduckz:
So, for any one here over the age of about 40 who ever used 'eenie meenie miney moe' on the playground should be stood down from any senior or management role. These lyrics are horrendous, but on every playground.

Or learnt to count with one little two little three little in...

tdgeek

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#2616994 6-Dec-2020 14:19

Batman:
sittingduckz:

So, for any one here over the age of about 40 who ever used 'eenie meenie miney moe' on the playground should be stood down from any senior or management role. These lyrics are horrendous, but on every playground.

Or learnt to count with one little two little three little in...

Golliwogs got banned. Why? If anything they symbolised a multicultural world. We now have multi cultural emoji's created on our devices. Gumby was banned as he is naked. These days you can pretty much ban anything if you have a think about it.

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#2617113 6-Dec-2020 19:49

tdgeek:

Golliwogs got banned. Why? If anything they symbolised a multicultural world.

Are you friggin' kidding me?

If you are serious, then can I suggest a bit of reading on the history and origins of these 'toys' may be in order before writing something as farcical (and, to many, offensive) as that statement above.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/100379498/golliwogs-not-harmless-never-have-been--human-rights-commission

https://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/golliwog/

Handle9

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#2617118 6-Dec-2020 20:12

sittingduckz:

So, for any one here over the age of about 40 who ever used 'eenie meenie miney moe' on the playground should be stood down from any senior or management role. These lyrics are horrendous, but on every playground.

What you are writing about was ignorance. This is very very different from Matera etc's tweets.

Equating the two is quite awful.

Handle9

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#2617119 6-Dec-2020 20:13

jonathan18:

tdgeek:

Golliwogs got banned. Why? If anything they symbolised a multicultural world.

Are you friggin' kidding me?

If you are serious, then can I suggest a bit of reading on the history and origins of these 'toys' may be in order before writing something as farcical (and, to many, offensive) as that statement above.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/100379498/golliwogs-not-harmless-never-have-been--human-rights-commission

https://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/golliwog/

It's a quite incredible post.

MikeB4

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#2617121 6-Dec-2020 20:18

Some posts here sadden and anger me.

tdgeek

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#2617188 7-Dec-2020 07:26

jonathan18:

tdgeek:

Golliwogs got banned. Why? If anything they symbolised a multicultural world.

Are you friggin' kidding me?

If you are serious, then can I suggest a bit of reading on the history and origins of these 'toys' may be in order before writing something as farcical (and, to many, offensive) as that statement above.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/100379498/golliwogs-not-harmless-never-have-been--human-rights-commission

https://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/golliwog/

Ban white dolls then, who have perpetrated racism against coloured people. What did the kids that grew up with golliwogs think of them? Toys. Different skin colours just like their friends at kindy and at school, at an age where racism didn't exist in their minds. Im sure there are many things we can ban. Cotton for example, thats also a symbol of past extreme racism, slavery and control, but its ok now. We are better to be thankful that humanity has made progress to move from the past, its 2020 now.

MikeB4

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#2617192 7-Dec-2020 07:34

@tdgeek please go an do some reading. The gollywog was terrible example of racism. Not only that it was a commercialisation of racism. It was never right and cannot in anyway be justified.

tdgeek

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#2617194 7-Dec-2020 07:48

Ok, the theme here is the same as the Crusaders thread, whose logo etc was representing the rugby team and its high level of excellence. Not the history of the other Crusaders, and when someone posted that St John also involved in atrocities, which is what our volunteer ambulance service is named after, that was conveniently ignored. Its a rugby team of high honours, its an ambulance service that cares of us, its a toy that kids play with that has no racial meaning to them, apart from representing diversity, even back then. If we want to live in than past there are many countries and thus many citizens that we should castigate. We have learnt from the past, how long are we going to live in the past? The past tells us what we did wrong, thats more important to me

MikeB4

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#2617197 7-Dec-2020 08:11

@tdgeek I sorry you are completely wrong. I implore you to go and do some research. It was a dreadful display of racism made even worse as it was targeting children and saying to them that racism is ok. Please think about it more before posting clearly in support of racism. Go and look at other racist commercials like for example the disgusting soap adverts that sent the message that was so good it could clean the black skin of non white folk and make them white, again using children.

Please stop trying to justify racism and accept this was, is and will ever be wrong.

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