School uniform enigma

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#3189383 1-Feb-2024 19:07

Rikkitic:
Handle9: In my opinion uniforms aren't a big deal either way.

Agree completely. The problem is those OC school administrators who make it a big deal.

I totally disagree. A group of parents are the biggest and most vocal proponents for uniforms.

I also disagree that uniforms are a problem. There are far bigger problems in education than whether a school chooses to have a uniform.

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#3189387 1-Feb-2024 19:26

@Handle9 Uniforms may not be a problem for those that can afford them. They are a big problem for those who cannot afford them.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#3189389 1-Feb-2024 19:31

MikeB4:
@Handle9 Uniforms may not be a problem for those that can afford them. They are a big problem for those who cannot afford them.

Every decision made for a population is going to have consequences. You can’t get away from negative consequences for some groups in a population. That is true of every choice a school or government makes.

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#3189390 1-Feb-2024 19:37

@Handle9 It's not a subject to be flippant and dismissive about. It has very real impact and hardship for a big percentage of the population and it's impacts can be generational as lack of access impacts education outcomes. It's a real problem that the government could resolve in a day.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Handle9

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#3189392 1-Feb-2024 19:40

Ah a personal attack rather than discussing what was said. Very good, carry on.

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#3189393 1-Feb-2024 19:41

My primary school required a uniform from year three. Collared shirts. Ties. Lining up for inspection and judging every morning. It was totally silly. Kids should not have to go through that arbitrary nonsense.

As I recall generic white collared shirts and generic grey shorts and trousers.

It's not just the uniform. Schools that go in for it tend to have additional silly rules about hair, skirt length, it goes on and on. It's easy to make stupid rules then the kids have to pay the price. I suspect it's not great fun for teachers either, except the psychos.

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MikeB4

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#3189394 1-Feb-2024 19:43

@Handle9 Clearly you did not read my post as it very much discussed the thread topic, namely, school uniforms.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#3189397 1-Feb-2024 19:50

You accused me of being flippant when it was a valid point that you didn’t like.

The problem you are describing isn’t school uniforms, it’s poverty. If you ban school uniforms the problem remains.

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#3189398 1-Feb-2024 19:55

Get rid of a colonial hangover will mean food on tables and remove considerable hardship.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#3189483 1-Feb-2024 22:23

Handle9:

I totally disagree. A group of parents are the biggest and most vocal proponents for uniforms.

I also disagree that uniforms are a problem. There are far bigger problems in education than whether a school chooses to have a uniform.

Some parents may well support this nonsense but it is overzealous school administrators who enforce it in all their stupendous pettiness. The two are not the same.

Of course there are bigger problems than uniform fettishes, but the uniforms are one added annoyance easily removed from the world.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Handle9

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#3189488 1-Feb-2024 22:45

Rikkitic:

Handle9:

I totally disagree. A group of parents are the biggest and most vocal proponents for uniforms.

I also disagree that uniforms are a problem. There are far bigger problems in education than whether a school chooses to have a uniform.

Some parents may well support this nonsense but it is overzealous school administrators who enforce it in all their stupendous pettiness. The two are not the same.

Of course there are bigger problems than uniform fettishes, but the uniforms are one added annoyance easily removed from the world.

School uniform policies are set by the board of trustees. The school administrators do what the board instructs, not the other way around. It's a governance issue for the school and blaming the adminstrators is quite incorrect.

Parents vote in the board and can change them if they want. If parents want a uniform and organise to elect a board that implements it then that's democracy in action. Similarly if they don't they can take action.

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#3189495 1-Feb-2024 23:27

Cost is a legitimate concern but tarring all school uniforms as expensive is faulty generalisation. Lots of low decile primary school use schooltex sold via the warehouse, while it's not kmart cheap it's a good cost/quality tradeoff imo. Also most schools run a second hand shop. If the uniform cost is extreme it should be taken up with the board.

Calling uniforms "colonialism" is far out there argument, what about a sports team having a uniform, is that "colonialism"? Plenty of countries/cultures have national dress styles historically, also "colonialism"? Yeah right...

Uniforms have some pros (convenience, cohesiveness, sense of belonging, avoiding a fashion show, identifying students as from that school etc) and some cons, apart from cases where the cost is jacked up I don't see a big issue with them and it's up to each school whether they require them or not.

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#3189496 1-Feb-2024 23:31

Handle9:

School uniform policies are set by the board of trustees. The school administrators do what the board instructs, not the other way around. It's a governance issue for the school and blaming the adminstrators is quite incorrect.

Parents vote in the board and can change them if they want. If parents want a uniform and organise to elect a board that implements it then that's democracy in action. Similarly if they don't they can take action.

Parents may be the ultimate policy makers but the enforcers are school personnel who make their own judgement calls on the matter, resulting in sometimes ridiculously petty and unfair decisions relating to clothing and hair length. They couldn't do this if stupid uniform requirements didn't exist in the first place.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Ragnor

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#3189497 1-Feb-2024 23:35

Rikkitic:

Parents may be the ultimate policy makers but the enforcers are school personnel who make their own judgement calls on the matter, resulting in sometimes ridiculously petty and unfair decisions relating to clothing and hair length. They couldn't do this if stupid uniform requirements didn't exist in the first place.

Even without a uniform the school still has to enforce a minimum dress code usually something like: clean clothing that is sensible and appropriate for the learning activity in which they are involved.

Students are not adults with fully developed brains (sometimes the parent's don't appear to have fully developed brains either), you are going to have to deal with offensive, impractical and unsafe choices.

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#3189498 1-Feb-2024 23:39

Ragnor:

Cost is a legitimate concern but tarring all school uniforms as expensive is faulty generalisation. Lots of low decile primary school use schooltex sold via the warehouse, while it's not kmart cheap it's a good cost/quality tradeoff imo. Also most schools run a second hand shop. If the uniform cost is extreme it should be taken up with the board.

Calling uniforms "colonialism" is far out there argument, what about a sports team having a uniform, is that "colonialism"? Plenty of countries/cultures have national dress styles historically, also "colonialism"? Yeah right...

Uniforms have some pros (convenience, cohesiveness, sense of belonging, avoiding a fashion show, identifying students as from that school etc) and some cons, apart from cases where the cost is jacked up I don't see a big issue with them and it's up to each school whether they require them or not.

This pretty much aligns with my view. Some school communities want uniforms and they are allowed to have them. Some don't want them and they don't.

The worst of all possible worlds is having a uniform which isn't enforced. You either agree as a school community to have a uniform, and there are consequnces for not wearing it, or you don't have a uniform. Conforming to societal rules is part of life, even if you don't like them.

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