29 Miners Stuck in West Coast

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#409249 25-Nov-2010 00:30

I publicly apologise you took offence, it wasn't intended to be a personal attack and I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. The tone of the comment was supposed to be sarcastic.

Damager

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#409250 25-Nov-2010 00:44

corksta: I publicly apologise you took offence, it wasn't intended to be a personal attack, was supposed to be sarcastic.

Corksta - Yeah it didn't work. I accept your public apology. Now let's all look forward to the rescue/recovery team being able to enter the mine successfully and safely, and bring the miners back to their families whenever possible.

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corksta

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#409251 25-Nov-2010 00:54

Agreed. And finding out what the hell happened so it never happens again.

sleemanj

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#409253 25-Nov-2010 02:05

Dratsab:
Actually no it won't burn, not once the oxygen level depletes below around 18%. From memory the upper explosive limit (UEL) for methane is around 17%, with it's lower explosive limit being around 5%.

+1 informative!

Yesterday the reading at the bore was 95%.

If we are generous and say the concentration directly after the explosion was, 0%, and assume for the sake of argument that the concentration increase is linear, we have 95%/5 = 19% concentration increase per day, which is 0.79% per hour, which gives us 6 hours until the LEL.

But of course, methane will rise, so in actual fact the interior ends of the mine will have much higher concentrations at that point due to the fact that this mine rises. The people are thought to have been in the interior ends of the mine.

So best case scenario from my particular armchair, rescuers could have had 6 hours, to, get to the mine, collect the equipment, hike in, carrying oxygen, water, medical supplies, search the mine, find survivors, who are obviously disabled, and get everybody back out. Not unless they had some super power would that be possible in the slightest.

There is talk ther is a fire burning deep within the mine which is providing a source of ignition for explosions.

Underground fires can and do burn for years, as long as there is fuel, being a coal mine, there is no real shortage of that. Centralia in the US is probably the most famous mine fire, it's been burning for nearly 50 years so far...

This was a world where no human could live, hotter than the planet Mercury, its atmosphere as poisonous as Saturn's. At the heart of the fire, temperatures easily exceeded 1,000 degrees [Fahrenheit]. Lethal clouds of carbon monoxide and other gases swirled through the rock chambers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania#Mine_fire

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James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...

sleemanj

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#409254 25-Nov-2010 02:22

Another long burning fire is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derweze
30 something years.

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James Sleeman
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SCM

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#409260 25-Nov-2010 03:26

For the last hours I have been trying to come up with the right words to express my feelings and up to now ive failed. Between the tears and emotions ive already gone through and what I can only just imaginen the family and close friends of the pike river coal miners are going through, its taken hours to type this out. Even now im still strugling to cope, TBH I really dont know if i really will come to terms with whats happened..

I have no more words apart from im just simply devistated at the news.I do have a strong opinion of what should have been done (what would they have done in the early 1900's? yep thats correct,. they would have gone strait in and rescued "their brothers"). But, for now is not the time to get in to that. In the time to come though, my opinion (strong opinion) will be made knowen!

All I can say for now is stay strong my kiwi brothers and sisters, as a nation we will greeve and for quite some time but we Can and we Will get through this disaster as we have done many many before.

For the last 6 and a half days I have been Tweeting and Facebooking hard trying to keep my friends, family and followers up to date on the latest events and now the time has come for me to stop, out of respect for our brothers/familys and friends, im going to quit from making updates, retweets and comments. If anyone does wish to know more just ask an ill try my best to help but for now ill leave you with this..

"A loved one's prayer"
Be near me Lord when I need you the most,
Open up your arms and hold me close.
Take me under your wing and keep me there,
Away from the hurt and grief I bear.

Walk with me Lord through the sad days ahead,
Give me love and strength from morn till bed.
Within myself my pain is so strong,
With hope in my heart you can lead me on.
Through tears and pain can I only grow,
At this point in my life I can't let go.

Heal my wounds and steer me right,
Maybe then in the end I will win my fight.
As time passes by I will realize then,
How wonderful life can become again.
I know in my heart you will always be there,
To love and guide me because you care.
So be near me my lord in this time of need,
Only with your love I will heal indeed.

Amen 1996 Mel Written by Mary Elizabeth Leigh, the daughter of a Welsh coal miner.

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WAS IT WORTH IT

Was it worth it all those years ago
My answer friends is definitely "No".
Seeing your men going down that dark hole
Clawing at the earth for black coal.
Their bodies marked and heavily scarred
Tired and grumpy from working so hard.
But ask those old men, miners of old
They'd answer yes, they enjoyed digging for black gold.
"We knew no different" they would say"
It was our job, working hard for little pay"
The valley now is void of mines
Gone are the turning wheels, big holes and dram lines.
The land is now picturesque and green
No sign of coal or collieries are to be seen

Yvonne Smith Australia 2002

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RIP my coal mining brothers and my condolences all of your familys.

sleemanj

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#409332 25-Nov-2010 09:41

SCM: For the last hours I have been trying to come up with the right words to express my feelings and up to now ive failed. Between the tears and emotions ive already gone through and what I can only just imaginen the family and close friends of the pike river coal miners are going through, its taken hours to type this out. Even now im still strugling to cope, TBH I really dont know if i really will come to terms with whats happened..

I don't understand, did you have family or friends in the disaster? If so, I'm sorry for your loss and your reaction is understandable,

If not, I respectfully suggest you seek help, your reaction sounds unhealthy - if we "struggled to cope" every time there was a tragic loss of life otherwise unconnected to ourselves, well, I'd be investing heavily in the anti-depressant industry.

The death toll from the Cambodian stampede 2 days ago is now over 400.
96 people including the Polish president died in an aircraft crash in April.
The death toll from the Haiti earthquake is over two hundred thousand, disease is now killing more.
The death toll from the Boxing Day Tsunami is around 250,000.

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James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...

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freitasm

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#409336 25-Nov-2010 09:44

sleemanj: I don't understand, did you have family or friends in the disaster? If so, I'm sorry for your loss and your reaction is understandable,

If not, I respectfully suggest you seek help, your reaction sounds unhealthy

While not exactly a breach of FUG, I think how each person reacts to those events (local, national) is something we should refrain from commenting on... This is not a personal warning, just something for everyone to think.

As for the previous personal discussion in this topic, that was brought to our attention and no further comments will be made.

b0untypure1

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#409361 25-Nov-2010 10:51

VinLew:
michaelmurfy: I knew 2 guys down there in the mine. Depressing news.

I vote Geekzone does what Twitter is doing, 11am on Thursday 25th November is 10mins of Geekzone Silence in honour of those lost at Pike River.

+1

Regs

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#409623 25-Nov-2010 20:30

well on the news today they said that the gas levels were already well past dangerous again and that another explosion could potentially have happened any time since the last one... to me that indicates that if they had sent the rescue teams in straight away, they may have potentially sent the rescuers to their death.

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Dratsab

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#409676 25-Nov-2010 22:41

My guess is on them pretty much sealing the mine and flooding it with an inert gas to try and quell the fire they say is burning in there. When you think about the massive space involved (as you should also do when you think about the enormity of the gaseous release we've seen) it'll be a long, long process.

The idea of flooding it with water has been raised but I think that'll too difficult and will make the recover of the miners even harder than it is now. On top of that, much evidence of what occurred would also be obliterated, which would be counter to the want to determine causes and put appropriate meaures in place to prevent recurrences.

Awful as it sounds, it may be a few months before a team can enter the mine (papers are reporting Supt Knowles as saying "weeks, if ever") which is just unfortunately the grim reality of the situation. Peter Whittall has said bringing the miners home is a priority - hopefully it's one that can, ultimately, be acted on.

NonprayingMantis

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#409829 26-Nov-2010 11:20

given the size and power of the explosion, is it even likely that there will be any bodies left to recover? Wouldn't they have simply disintegrated at that level of blast?

Asmodeus

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#409879 26-Nov-2010 13:40

NonprayingMantis: given the size and power of the explosion, is it even likely that there will be any bodies left to recover? Wouldn't they have simply disintegrated at that level of blast?

Probably not. Whether or not they are still completely intact however...

The decision to not send people in was the right one IMO. It's all to easy to say they should have sent someone in but we'll never know. The large congregation of international mining, engineering and rescue experts concurred otherwise sooooooo........

Most people do not appreciate what tunnel explosions can be like. The massive shockwave has very limited space to expand in and the pressures generated are HUGE. Not to mention the gas, fire & smoke that would have filled the thing instantly. Most of the miners would have died straight away in all likelihood

Lets just hope the coal seam hasn't ignited as they can burn for a very long time. Burning Mountain in Australia has been burning for 6,000 (yes, thousand) years (albeit very slowly)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Mountain

"Internationally, thousands of underground coal fires are burning now. Global coal fire emission are estimated to include 40 tons of mercury going into the atmosphere annually, and three percent of the world's annual CO2 emissions"

Also, here's some more evidence against sending people down burning, gas-filled, explosive mines

http://www.usmra.com/rescuer_deaths.htm

sorry if it's already been posted

Kaos36

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#410018 26-Nov-2010 19:07

Its quite embarrassing that we lost those guys you would think we had the know how to get them out. Its like we had no idea. And we had a policeman in charge? In mining disasters the police are there but to keep the public out away from the danger area, they leave the rescue up to the rescue teams. The robots should of been ordered from the US and Aust on day one but 5 days later we send our one in that breaks down then we ask for the other two. To late. The rescue team should of been sent in within the hr after the first explosion but we couldn't do that cause our guys don't have the right protection gear. We failed 29 miners died. I read on a US forum that when a mining accident such as this one happens the rescue team have a 2 - 5hr window after the first explosion.

What a waste of lives.

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From a readers' Q and A column in TV GUIDE: "If we get involved in a nuclear war, would the electromagnetic pulses from exploding bombs damage my videotapes?"

corksta

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#410025 26-Nov-2010 19:28

Kaos36, so much information is available as to why the police lead the incident, who actually makes the decisions, and why no rescue was attempted in the first few hours.

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