Maoris beating their kids. What the hell happened!

Forums › Off topic › Maoris beating their kids. What the hell happened!

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#431345 26-Jan-2011 12:16

gchiu: It seems to be treated as an XOR, and not an AND/OR.

What is your evidence for this ?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

LookingUp

440 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 88

#431354 26-Jan-2011 12:27

Returning to the theme of the original post and some of the comment since, I think the real issue being raised here is that as a NATION we're really good at moaning about stuff and finding fault, but not particularly good (or focused on) effecting positive change.

On the smacking issue, personally I believe that many of the problems we're seeing with the youth of today is a result of too many pats on the head and not enough pats on the arse! Childern need boundaries, and need to understand that they WILL reap the consequences of their actions, not another warning. There was an interesting segment on this on Close Up last night, based on a long term Otago Uni study that has received international aclaim. The upshot is that the study (over 30+ years) is showing that self control is a strong determinant in how "successful" a person will become, irrespective of intelligence or other factors. Self control is learnt by gaining an appreciation of cause and effect...

(note - there is a BIG difference between a justified smack and a beating, and that's where the line needs to be drawn)

Things are LookingUp.... A photo from my back yard :-)

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#431357 26-Jan-2011 12:34

LookingUp: Returning to the theme of the original post and some of the comment since, I think the real issue being raised here is that as a NATION we're really good at moaning about stuff and finding fault, but not particularly good (or focused on) effecting positive change.

On the smacking issue, personally I believe that many of the problems we're seeing with the youth of today is a result of too many pats on the head and not enough pats on the arse! Childern need boundaries, and need to understand that they WILL reap the consequences of their actions, not another warning. There was an interesting segment on this on Close Up last night, based on a long term Otago Uni study that has received international aclaim. The upshot is that the study (over 30+ years) is showing that self control is a strong determinant in how "successful" a person will become, irrespective of intelligence or other factors. Self control is learnt by gaining an appreciation of cause and effect...

(note - there is a BIG difference between a justified smack and a beating, and that's where the line needs to be drawn)

Hitting a child teaches them one thing , if you wish to control another person you hit them. The generation that is doing the "hitting" now is the generation that supposedly the occasional " pats on the arse" did no harm. Guess what, they did do harm and we are seeing the affects of that harm now.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

gchiu

1211 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 259

Trusted

#431363 26-Jan-2011 12:45

Well, that appears to me to be incorrect deduction. Beating or smacking a child does not teach self control. It only teaches them how to treat others.

Self control is part what is called emotional IQ. And for this to develop, the child needs to be exposed to a nurturing environment so that the brain develops properly leading to full integration of both cortical and hind brain structures.

An anecdote for you. Last week I was in Hastings, and talking to the Maori taxi driver. She told me that she had just returned to Hastings to live having been in "exile" for some years. Both she and her husband felt that it was not possible to raise their kids in the local culture. So they moved to Wellington where they brought up their kids, and now their offspring are successfully educated with jobs overseas. They've only returned now that her husband is retired and wants to come back home.

bazzer

3438 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 267

Trusted

#431364 26-Jan-2011 12:47

LookingUp: Returning to the theme of the original post and some of the comment since, I think the real issue being raised here is that as a NATION we're really good at moaning about stuff and finding fault, but not particularly good (or focused on) effecting positive change.

On the smacking issue, personally I believe that many of the problems we're seeing with the youth of today is a result of too many pats on the head and not enough pats on the arse! Childern need boundaries, and need to understand that they WILL reap the consequences of their actions, not another warning. There was an interesting segment on this on Close Up last night, based on a long term Otago Uni study that has received international aclaim. The upshot is that the study (over 30+ years) is showing that self control is a strong determinant in how "successful" a person will become, irrespective of intelligence or other factors. Self control is learnt by gaining an appreciation of cause and effect...

(note - there is a BIG difference between a justified smack and a beating, and that's where the line needs to be drawn)

Good points, but the conclusion that these boundaries can only be learned by smacking is ridiculous. Self control is learnt by gaining an appreciation of cause (bad behaviour) and effect (smacking)... Really?!

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#431367 26-Jan-2011 12:53

LookingUp: Returning to the theme of the original post and some of the comment since, I think the real issue being raised here is that as a NATION we're really good at moaning about stuff and finding fault, but not particularly good (or focused on) effecting positive change.

On the smacking issue, personally I believe that many of the problems we're seeing with the youth of today is a result of too many pats on the head and not enough pats on the arse! Childern need boundaries, and need to understand that they WILL reap the consequences of their actions, not another warning. There was an interesting segment on this on Close Up last night, based on a long term Otago Uni study that has received international aclaim. The upshot is that the study (over 30+ years) is showing that self control is a strong determinant in how "successful" a person will become, irrespective of intelligence or other factors. Self control is learnt by gaining an appreciation of cause and effect...

(note - there is a BIG difference between a justified smack and a beating, and that's where the line needs to be drawn)

I totally agree that kids need to learn about consequences, I just don’t see why anyone thinks that violence must therefore be the answer. There are plenty of non-violent things parents can do that teach children about consequences depending on age.

Anything from Timeout, to confiscating their favourite toys, grounding, no pocket money, extra chores etc etc.

Violence ( and that includes a smack) is nothing more than poor parenting IMO.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

sittingduckz

689 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 288

ID Verified

#431370 26-Jan-2011 12:57

KiwiNZ:
LookingUp: Returning to the theme of the original post and some of the comment since, I think the real issue being raised here is that as a NATION we're really good at moaning about stuff and finding fault, but not particularly good (or focused on) effecting positive change.

On the smacking issue, personally I believe that many of the problems we're seeing with the youth of today is a result of too many pats on the head and not enough pats on the arse! Childern need boundaries, and need to understand that they WILL reap the consequences of their actions, not another warning. There was an interesting segment on this on Close Up last night, based on a long term Otago Uni study that has received international aclaim. The upshot is that the study (over 30+ years) is showing that self control is a strong determinant in how "successful" a person will become, irrespective of intelligence or other factors. Self control is learnt by gaining an appreciation of cause and effect...

(note - there is a BIG difference between a justified smack and a beating, and that's where the line needs to be drawn)

Hitting a child teaches them one thing , if you wish to control another person you hit them. The generation that is doing the "hitting" now is the generation that supposedly the occasional " pats on the arse" did no harm. Guess what, they did do harm and we are seeing the affects of that harm now.

I'm sorry KiwiNZ but you need to wake up or pull your head out of the sand. There is a bigger problem with Maori violence!

I was smacked as a child and it has done me no wrong at all. In fact it has given me a very good understanding of right and wrong. I have never hit anyone else in anger.

Maori now have the greatest opportunity in today's society. ALL people need to take responsibly for there own actions and lives. I have never been unemployed because I work hard... people want to employ me for that reason.

Stop the BS of blaming others for your own misfortune... that's what's wrong with this country.

Nobody is allowed to say "it's your own fault, get off your lazy a$$ and fix it" because of course it's always the governments fault.

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

bazzer

3438 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 267

Trusted

#431374 26-Jan-2011 13:03

sittingduckz: I'm sorry KiwiNZ but you need to wake up or pull your head out of the sand. There is a bigger problem with Maori violence!

I was smacked as a child and it has done me no wrong at all. In fact it has given me a very good understanding of right and wrong. I have never hit anyone else in anger.

Maori now have the greatest opportunity in today's society. ALL people need to take responsibly for there own actions and lives. I have never been unemployed because I work hard... people want to employ me for that reason.

Stop the BS of blaming others for your own misfortune... that's what's wrong with this country.

Nobody is allowed to say "it's your own fault, get off your lazy a$$ and fix it" because of course it's always the governments fault.

Would you be worse off if you weren't smacked but disciplined in a non-violent way?

LookingUp

440 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 88

#431375 26-Jan-2011 13:03

KiwiNZ: Hitting a child teaches them one thing , if you wish to control another person you hit them. The generation that is doing the "hitting" now is the generation that supposedly the occasional " pats on the arse" did no harm. Guess what, they did do harm and we are seeing the affects of that harm now.

Umm - bollocks!

I grew up in the 70's, where it was fully accepted that if you didn't behave you got a smack (NOT a hit - there's a difference), and I'll think you'll find that those of my parent's generation had things a lot tougher than us. I know for a FACT that this was the case with my parents. By your logic there should have been a significant improvement since the removal of corporal punishment - has there been? Ask any teacher if they've seen an improvement in classroom or playground behaviour in the last 30 years, or whether it's been quite the reverse.

We were taught that actions have consequences, and that while it's our right to make our own choices, that this comes with acceptances of the outcomes of those choices. Knowing I WOULD get a smack if it was threatened was almost without exception sufficient to prevent me from doing whatever it was I was told not to.

The key point here is that a short sharp "correction" is effective if delivered in a consistent and fair manner. This is NO excuse for a beating, or smacking if not preceeded by a clear warning.

What we have now is a generation of children and adolescents that know that they can do whatever they want without significant consequence. I shudder to think what this will lead to.

Things are LookingUp.... A photo from my back yard :-)

sittingduckz

689 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 288

ID Verified

#431378 26-Jan-2011 13:10

bazzer:
sittingduckz: I'm sorry KiwiNZ but you need to wake up or pull your head out of the sand. There is a bigger problem with Maori violence!

I was smacked as a child and it has done me no wrong at all. In fact it has given me a very good understanding of right and wrong. I have never hit anyone else in anger.

Maori now have the greatest opportunity in today's society. ALL people need to take responsibly for there own actions and lives. I have never been unemployed because I work hard... people want to employ me for that reason.

Stop the BS of blaming others for your own misfortune... that's what's wrong with this country.

Nobody is allowed to say "it's your own fault, get off your lazy a$$ and fix it" because of course it's always the governments fault.

Would you be worse off if you weren't smacked but disciplined in a non-violent way?

Yep!! I would have laughed at it and thought I could now get away with anything now woohoo. Just like a lot of kids today are thinking. I do not consider an moderate open handed smack to be violence, just good parenting IMO!!

The smacking law has made no difference to REAL violence in the home or child deaths!!

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#431379 26-Jan-2011 13:11

sittingduckz:
KiwiNZ:
LookingUp: Returning to the theme of the original post and some of the comment since, I think the real issue being raised here is that as a NATION we're really good at moaning about stuff and finding fault, but not particularly good (or focused on) effecting positive change.

On the smacking issue, personally I believe that many of the problems we're seeing with the youth of today is a result of too many pats on the head and not enough pats on the arse! Childern need boundaries, and need to understand that they WILL reap the consequences of their actions, not another warning. There was an interesting segment on this on Close Up last night, based on a long term Otago Uni study that has received international aclaim. The upshot is that the study (over 30+ years) is showing that self control is a strong determinant in how "successful" a person will become, irrespective of intelligence or other factors. Self control is learnt by gaining an appreciation of cause and effect...

(note - there is a BIG difference between a justified smack and a beating, and that's where the line needs to be drawn)

Hitting a child teaches them one thing , if you wish to control another person you hit them. The generation that is doing the "hitting" now is the generation that supposedly the occasional " pats on the arse" did no harm. Guess what, they did do harm and we are seeing the affects of that harm now.

I'm sorry KiwiNZ but you need to wake up or pull your head out of the sand. There is a bigger problem with Maori violence!

I was smacked as a child and it has done me no wrong at all. In fact it has given me a very good understanding of right and wrong. I have never hit anyone else in anger.

Maori now have the greatest opportunity in today's society. ALL people need to take responsibly for there own actions and lives. I have never been unemployed because I work hard... people want to employ me for that reason.

Stop the BS of blaming others for your own misfortune... that's what's wrong with this country.

Nobody is allowed to say "it's your own fault, get off your lazy a$$ and fix it" because of course it's always the governments fault.

1. I am not Maori
2. I was never unemployed
3. I was never hit by my parents
4. I have never been in any trouble with the law

If you believe that Maori have the same opportunities then I respectfully suggest it is you that has the head in the sand. There is many issues that this Nation needs to address and until it does we will continue to see these problems escalate.

a. The unresolved Treaty issues and claims
b. The still abuse of the Treaty
c. Maori literacy rates
d. Maori health issues
e. Maori Child mortality rates

And on general terms.

a. Child health issues for all children,
b. Child safety ( one of the worst in the OECD)
d. Family Violence across all sector of society
e. Alcohol and drug abuse across all sectors of society
f. High drop out rates from schools

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

wreck90

780 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#431380 26-Jan-2011 13:13

@kiwinz, you spout a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense.

You have no evidence, and pluck imaginary facts out of the air to support your beliefs.

There is more fantasy in your post than a Harry Potter novel .

If anything, there is less physical discipline than when I was a child (removal of corporal punishment, anti-smacking law etc)...maybe the increasing violence in todays society is reflecting the removal of physical discipline.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#431384 26-Jan-2011 13:18

sittingduckz:
bazzer:
sittingduckz: I'm sorry KiwiNZ but you need to wake up or pull your head out of the sand. There is a bigger problem with Maori violence!

I was smacked as a child and it has done me no wrong at all. In fact it has given me a very good understanding of right and wrong. I have never hit anyone else in anger.

Maori now have the greatest opportunity in today's society. ALL people need to take responsibly for there own actions and lives. I have never been unemployed because I work hard... people want to employ me for that reason.

Stop the BS of blaming others for your own misfortune... that's what's wrong with this country.

Nobody is allowed to say "it's your own fault, get off your lazy a$$ and fix it" because of course it's always the governments fault.

Would you be worse off if you weren't smacked but disciplined in a non-violent way?

Yep!! I would have laughed at it and thought I could now get away with anything now woohoo. Just like a lot of kids today are thinking. I do not consider an moderate open handed smack to be violence, just good parenting IMO!!

The smacking law has made no difference to REAL violence in the home or child deaths!!

Of course the No smacking law hasn't made a big impact yet the generation being born in the era were smacking is illegal have not started having children yet. The ones still doing the hitting were those raised in the era where hitting as a punishment was OK.

When the generation that has been raised without hitting starts having children and starts using positive parenting we will see a lot changes.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

sittingduckz

689 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 288

ID Verified

#431385 26-Jan-2011 13:20

a. The unresolved Treaty issues and claims
b. The still abuse of the Treaty
c. Maori literacy rates
d. Maori health issues
e. Maori Child mortality rates

And on general terms.

a. Child health issues for all children,
b. Child safety ( one of the worst in the OECD)
d. Family Violence across all sector of society
e. Alcohol and drug abuse across all sectors of society
f. High drop out rates from schools

a. Possibly (Has no real effect on violence?)
b. What??
c. Maori have the same education, don't they??
d. Genetically aren't we the same
e. My point extactly

a. Has a lot to do with parenting
b. Also has a lot to do with parenting
c. Missing
d. Yes but to what ratio
e. Again to what ratio
f. Come down to parenting

There are already so many education/health centres & funding in place for Maori

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

LookingUp

440 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 88

#431387 26-Jan-2011 13:26

bazzer: Would you be worse off if you weren't smacked but disciplined in a non-violent way?

Dunno - it wasn't really an option. However, knowing I WOULD get a smack if warned was sufficient to ensure that it was a very rare occasion that I actually wore one. I learnt this early, and would say that the effect was entirely beneficial. As per the other poster - I can't think of a time when I ever struck another in anger, including close to 20 years playing rugby where provocation and opportunity where always there.

To answer the "punish by non-violent means" question I'd suggest that a short sharp "reminder" at the time of the incident is far more effective in teaching behaviour at an early age than a deferred or drawn out punishment that loses relevance to the crime with time. By the time a kid is old enough to associate the loss of a toy with an action performed minutes/hours/days ago the behaviour pattern could well be set.

On the other hand, aversion therapy is very effective in training animals (and very young children) and is a lesson that sticks very quickly and well.

Things are LookingUp.... A photo from my back yard :-)

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10