Is poverty the Government's fault?

Forums › Off topic › Is poverty the Government's fault?

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8

Athlonite

1828 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 210
Inactive user

#901331 23-Sep-2013 17:02

Klipspringer: Interesting that 66% of voters in this opinion poll define poverty in NZ as:

"Having a job but not being able to afford basic goods"

Does anybody know the actual New Zealand definition for poverty?

In some cases that's quite a true statistic if your on the minimum wage of $13.75 per hour before tax child support and student loan repayments if have them
by the time you pay for fuel power rent phone as much as 90% of your pay check has gone and out of the 10% left over you have to buy food put money aside for vehicle maintenance/rego/wof school fees clothing doctors visits etc etc etc.....

which could be alleviated by the govt taking gst off of fresh veg, fruit, meat, milk/butter and bread
also if your on any type of benefit you should not have sky tv which is so common now it's not funny just take a drive through most of the so-called economically challenged areas of your town and count how many sky dishes or UHF aerials you see and maybe only 10% of those are for freeview or on recycling day take a look and see how many houses are putting out multiple boxes of empty booze bottles/cans so money meant for feeding your child is being wasted on your unnecessary wants

1080p

1332 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 152
Inactive user

#901335 23-Sep-2013 17:18

sidefx: Is there a way to prevent threads from showing up on your "New forums posts" list? This thread really makes me wish that there was...

I agree, it really is terrible that you may see opinions that differ from your own.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#901371 23-Sep-2013 18:10

6FIEND:
Geektastic:
Fred99:
Geektastic:

You most certainly CAN use brute force to stop people having children. It's just that NZ is a bit politically wet and has a big red stripe so everyone (well almost - I'd be very happy to see it done) thinks it is too nasty.

A question about your childhood - did you ever ask why you had to kill all your friends to get to the next level in Wolfenstein?

No. What's a Wolfenstein? I have no idea.

I can envisage that killing them may have been a logical necessity in some circumstances if a Wolfenstein is a game of some sort?

...I think you'll find that was Godwin's Law being invoked after a record 7 pages of discourse! :-)

(I'm assuming that you weren't being sarcastic in your response)

Very restrained I thought, when in that 7 pages were expressions of support for compulsory sterilization (presumably of the poor).

I was going to invoke Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia, but assumed that he might be even more obscure than Wolfenstein in a geek forum - even an off-topic one.

6FIEND

774 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 589
Inactive user

#901711 24-Sep-2013 09:58

Athlonite: if your on the minimum wage of $13.75 per hour before tax child support and student loan repayments if have them
by the time you pay for fuel power rent phone as much as 90% of your pay check has gone and out of the 10% left over you have to buy food put money aside for vehicle maintenance/rego/wof school fees clothing doctors visits etc etc etc.....

which could be alleviated by the govt taking gst off of fresh veg, fruit, meat, milk/butter and bread

Sorry, but that's mathematically incorrect.

Minimum wage for 40hrs = $550pw (gross)
After Tax = $463 (assume no student loan, kiwisaver, child support to give your argument the best chance of success)
If "Fuel, Power, Rent, Phone" is 90% of that = $416
Leaving $47pw for everything else.
If all you bought with that $47 was fresh veg, fruit, meat, milk/butter and bread, then the GST component is a mere $6

...sure, you could argue that $6 is better than nothing, but the reality is that you are going to spend your money on other things as well (toiletries, weet bix, condiments, clothing, incidentals) so your real gain is likely to be only a buck or two...

All at the cost of millions upon millions of dollars in increased compliance costs to businesses and increased complexity (=funding) for the IRD.

...and I'll reiterate - that's "best case" scenario - before "Minimum Wage Guy" has even considered repaying a student loan, or paying child support, or buying a single drink or pack of smokes...

I'm not passing judgement on anything (or anyone) here except the viability of this Labour Policy to do any good whatsoever... It's a feel-good, token gesture at best that will be incredibly expensive to implement and provide absolutely minimal benefit for low income earners.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2159

#901720 24-Sep-2013 10:15

Athlonite:
which could be alleviated by the govt taking gst off of fresh veg, fruit, meat, milk/butter and bread

This is a common misconception by people.

Firstly, selective GST introduces economic 'drag' which makes everyone worse off. Our all-encompassing GST system is very efficient.

Supermarkets prices will increase to cover the extra system costs. So, right from the start you are never going to save 15%.

Next, the government loses GST revenue which was being used to fund transport/education/police and so on. So, the government increase taxes to make up for the shortfall. Sure, you could increase taxes only for rich people (earning over 200k a year for example), but what happens when these people start leaving due to increased taxation? See France for the answer.

So, not only do our taxes increase to cover lost GST income, food prices increase also to cover the extra costs of selective GST. In sum, we lose out.

JimmyH

2898 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1554

#902031 24-Sep-2013 19:06

Athlonite:

which could be alleviated by the govt taking gst off of fresh veg, fruit, meat, milk/butter and bread
also if your on any type of benefit you should not have sky tv which is so common now it's not funny just take a drive through most of the so-called economically challenged areas of your town and count how many sky dishes or UHF aerials you see and maybe only 10% of those are for freeview or on recycling day take a look and see how many houses are putting out multiple boxes of empty booze bottles/cans so money meant for feeding your child is being wasted on your unnecessary wants

Sorry wrong. Superficially sensible, but when you think about it's fairly obviously a nutty idea.

As others have demonstrated, someone on a minimum wage would get little from such a policy. The rich would actually do somewhat better. After all, artichokes, truffles, lobster and smoked salmon are foods too. Plus, it would hugely beneficial for the accountants and lawyers who would be needed to comply with the new regime, and litigate cases at the margin. And what seems like a simple idea soon becomes complex and expensive.

GST on basic foods but not luxuries. Fine. Are plain biscuits a basic food or a luxury? What about a slab of luxury Belgian chocolate? If you answer yes, then no, what about chocolate chip biscuits? What about chocolate dipped biscuits? How many chips is it allowed to have before it is no longer tax exempt? Rules, enforcement, court cases, appeals and political lobbying would be rampant for all of these cases.

In Britain they even have tax inspectors check the temperature of cornish pasties in shops (I kid you not). Because if they are cold or are cooling and not being kept in a special hot cabinet then they are a grocery item and don't attract VAT. If they are hot they are a prepared takeaway, and attract VAT. There have been court cases and now have to be a bevvy of bureaucrats to write the rules.

Check out: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18244171. Utter Lunacy........

A simple, flat rate system, with few/no exemptions is far best. Target assistance using income support, based on a persons/families circumstances etc. Cheaper, simpler, and much much less wasteful.

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2159

#902064 24-Sep-2013 20:47

JimmyH:

In Britain they even have tax inspectors check the temperature of cornish pasties in shops (I kid you not). Because if they are cold or are cooling and not being kept in a special hot cabinet then they are a grocery item and don't attract VAT. If they are hot they are a prepared takeaway, and attract VAT. There have been court cases and now have to be a bevvy of bureaucrats to write the rules.

There was one example where a food item would attract VAT in winter but not in summer due to the temperature differential being greater in winter thus trapping it within the vat rules.

alasta

6891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3365

Trusted

Subscriber

#902075 24-Sep-2013 21:07

6FIEND: I'm not passing judgement on anything (or anyone) here except the viability of this Labour Policy to do any good whatsoever... It's a feel-good, token gesture at best that will be incredibly expensive to implement and provide absolutely minimal benefit for low income earners.

This is what has annoyed me about the Labour Party in recent years. They have some smart people who know that policies like this are ineffective and counter productive, but they also know that they're politically popular among a vast population of extremely naive voters. Ultimately a conversation around a boardroom table has determined that winning votes is more important than good policy.

Stopping foreigners from buying houses and interest free student loans are a couple of other classic examples of this.

kiwirock

694 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 141

#904245 28-Sep-2013 17:32

Klipspringer:

Why is there nothing on NZ?
Can I sponsor a child in New Zealand?
Are there any worldwide sites where people from overseas can help with our problem?

As the old saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And as with most things, it comes down to attitude. Trying to prove it doesn't exist so as to not have to think about it, or making damn sure it doesn't.

Yes you can sponsor a child in New Zealand, it's using your own initiative. Have more to do with your local school and start looking around to find the kids going without, and give. It's a concept lost on most people, too many expect someone else to administrate it which only wastes money and serves to feed ignorance and reactive rather than preventative action. The more you look, the more you give, the more you get better at helping those most in need.

World wide sites? I hope not - you can't tell me with however million people in New Zealand, we can't come up with looking after our own communities. Yet some still fall through the cracks and we all look for a way to blame the government or someone else for not stepping in. But there are those who really don't care, and that's why we need government to do what everyone else should be doing.

I'm not much of a fan of religion, but close communities used to exist in the world when families in the community had a lot more to do with each other. Now there is so much personal responsibility phrases being passed around in political speeches that it's become justification for an escape from community and social responsibility though too.

Imagine how boring life would be though, if there was no poverty or people in need in our community. We'd all self centred and completely ignorant of the needs of others. So let's go looking for opportunity to help others and be grateful we can give rather than be stuck at the other end of the stick.

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#904249 28-Sep-2013 17:40

Inphinity:
Geektastic:

I still don't know what a Wolfenstein is though.

Really? Here ya go then...

That does not help me much. I've never played so don't know what is involved.

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#904250 28-Sep-2013 17:41

alasta:
6FIEND: I'm not passing judgement on anything (or anyone) here except the viability of this Labour Policy to do any good whatsoever... It's a feel-good, token gesture at best that will be incredibly expensive to implement and provide absolutely minimal benefit for low income earners.

This is what has annoyed me about the Labour Party in recent years. They have some smart people who know that policies like this are ineffective and counter productive, but they also know that they're politically popular among a vast population of extremely naive voters. Ultimately a conversation around a boardroom table has determined that winning votes is more important than good policy.

Stopping foreigners from buying houses and interest free student loans are a couple of other classic examples of this.

I agree. Which is why I would require people to pass a test in order to be able to vote.

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8