Why are people not held accountable for their own actions these days ?

Forums › Off topic › Why are people not held accountable for their own actions these days ?

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Networkn
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#762428 14-Feb-2013 16:10

keewee01:
networkn:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

Yet other people pay for things for you now

Such as?

Roading, Health, Defence, Policing,Education.......... to name a few

Infrastructure in general. Don't forget that you are using some of those things indirectly. Everything you consume will have an impact on those resources mentioned above.

But as a tax payer SaltyNZ is likely paying his fair share of these things - they're collectively owned and paid for. They are there for everyones benefit.

It's not like SaltyNZ is using an entire school just for him, or has the entire police force at his beck-and-call.

The signs and fences are there for the benefit of those who can't think for themselves.

But using that argument in reverse, his original claim of not wanting to spend money on things he isn't using, is addressed the same way. There are some people not using resources they all pay for. It's a community and we share the expenses. He might not use signs, but others might benefit from them, he might use healthcare more extensively and others won't use it at all.

MikeB4

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#762430 14-Feb-2013 16:11

keewee01:
networkn:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

Yet other people pay for things for you now

Such as?

Roading, Health, Defence, Policing,Education.......... to name a few

Infrastructure in general. Don't forget that you are using some of those things indirectly. Everything you consume will have an impact on those resources mentioned above.

But as a tax payer SaltyNZ is likely paying his fair share of these things - they're collectively owned and paid for. They are there for everyones benefit.

It's not like SaltyNZ is using an entire school just for him, or has the entire police force at his beck-and-call.

The signs and fences are there for the benefit of those who can't think for themselves.

No one is paying their fair share that is why successive Governments for decades have operated at huge deficits.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

BlueShift

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#762455 14-Feb-2013 16:24

Another day another coroner's recommendation: all cyclists should be required to wear hi-viz gear.

DarthKermit

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#762466 14-Feb-2013 16:33

KiwiNZ: No one is paying their fair share that is why successive Governments for decades have operated at huge deficits.

Certainly not big multinationals like Apple and Google who use every legal trick in the book to minimise their tax liabilities.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

BlueShift

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#762480 14-Feb-2013 16:47

KiwiNZ:
keewee01:
networkn:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

Yet other people pay for things for you now

Such as?

Roading, Health, Defence, Policing,Education.......... to name a few

Infrastructure in general. Don't forget that you are using some of those things indirectly. Everything you consume will have an impact on those resources mentioned above.

But as a tax payer SaltyNZ is likely paying his fair share of these things - they're collectively owned and paid for. They are there for everyones benefit.

It's not like SaltyNZ is using an entire school just for him, or has the entire police force at his beck-and-call.

The signs and fences are there for the benefit of those who can't think for themselves.

No one is paying their fair share that is why successive Governments for decades have operated at huge deficits.

I was under the impression the Govt was running at a decent surplus for quite a few years until about 4-5 years back.

mcraenz

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#762491 14-Feb-2013 16:55

SaltyNZ:

I do not see why *I* should need to pay for other people's stupidity.

Why not? You choose to live in a society with stupid people. Fact is, not everyone:
a) Is as smart as you
b) Has been given the same opportunities as you
c) Given the same toolset in their upbringing as you
(Pick which ones apply)

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NZtechfreak

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#762498 14-Feb-2013 17:03

SaltyNZ:
NZtechfreak:
Perhaps objectors could give supply me with so much as one cost to society for printing these warnings, some way in which it would harm us all? I don't think I can think of one, so on balance it is a zero cost initiative that may do some good (catching those people 'at the fringes', people trying to lose weight, be conscious of their diet etc, who may just see a visible warning about coke and decide 'not this time'). Surely as a society we should be doing things that may be good for us and cost us nothing?

Well, it doesn't really cost "society" to print warnings on Coke or cigarettes, but it certainly does cost society when we need to put up signs and fences around fast rivers, hot mud pools, volcanoes or what-not.

* It costs money to manufacture and install them - this comes out of your taxes
* It costs money to upkeep them because someone's always trying to break them - this comes out of your taxes
* It costs money because OMG THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY FOR MY STUPIDITY AND I WANT THEM TO PAY ME A MILLION DOLLARS IN COMPENSATION - this comes out of your taxes
* It makes something that should be natural and beautiful into an eye-sore surrounded by wire fences and warning signs

I do not see why *I* should need to pay for other people's stupidity.

So you are tacitly conceding to my point then; there is no cost, ergo no reason not to do it.

I have no particular opinion as to the rest, that's a separate discussion really and doesn't address anything I've had to say.

I don't see labelling coke as a 'gateway warning' that suddenly sends legislators down a slippery slope that ends in signs on everything.

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MikeSkyrme

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#762510 14-Feb-2013 17:16

(truncated quote)

I don't see labelling coke as a 'gateway warning' that suddenly sends legislators down a slippery slope that ends in signs on everything.

Really? I would think that this would be know as 'setting a precedent'.

I say this as I sit with my Starbucks cup beside me, telling me to be careful as my coffee is extremely hot......

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nathan

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#762514 14-Feb-2013 17:24

BlueShift:
KiwiNZ:
keewee01:
networkn:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

Yet other people pay for things for you now

Such as?

Roading, Health, Defence, Policing,Education.......... to name a few

Infrastructure in general. Don't forget that you are using some of those things indirectly. Everything you consume will have an impact on those resources mentioned above.

But as a tax payer SaltyNZ is likely paying his fair share of these things - they're collectively owned and paid for. They are there for everyones benefit.

It's not like SaltyNZ is using an entire school just for him, or has the entire police force at his beck-and-call.

The signs and fences are there for the benefit of those who can't think for themselves.

No one is paying their fair share that is why successive Governments for decades have operated at huge deficits.

I was under the impression the Govt was running at a decent surplus for quite a few years until about 4-5 years back.

and then Dr Cullen signed up the Government to spend $2.202 billion of your money buying Kiwirail from Toll, and the Aussies laughed all the way to the bank, i bet they couldn't believe their luck.

NZtechfreak

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#762521 14-Feb-2013 17:29

MikeSkyrme:
(truncated quote)

I don't see labelling coke as a 'gateway warning' that suddenly sends legislators down a slippery slope that ends in signs on everything.

Really? I would think that this would be know as 'setting a precedent'.

I say this as I sit with my Starbucks cup beside me, telling me to be careful as my coffee is extremely hot......

Riiiiight. This would set a precedent, not the dozens of things that have had warning labels for years and decades.

Twitter: @nztechfreak
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Klipspringer

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#762523 14-Feb-2013 17:35

NZtechfreak:
So you are tacitly conceding to my point then; there is no cost, ergo no reason not to do it.

Plenty of reasons not do do it.

Doing so would imply that coke is bad for you!!!!

Its different to smoking where doing that in moderation has bad affects on your health regardless. There is nothing wrong with a glass of coke a day. In fact there is nothing wrong with caffeine when not over doing it. Show me a report that suggests otherwise.

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MikeB4

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#762526 14-Feb-2013 17:39

There must be an enormous social impact from warning people that I am not seeing. Should we be reviewing all the road signs etc as they are seriously impacting society?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Klipspringer

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#762527 14-Feb-2013 17:41

KiwiNZ: There must be an enormous social impact from warning people that I am not seeing. Should we be reviewing all the road signs etc as they are seriously impacting society?

Road signs warn people of hazards. Dont see anything wrong with them.

But why warn somebody about drinking too much of something? Seriously! Its a no brainier.

NZtechfreak

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#762533 14-Feb-2013 17:51

Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ: There must be an enormous social impact from warning people that I am not seeing. Should we be reviewing all the road signs etc as they are seriously impacting society?

Road signs warn people of hazards. Dont see anything wrong with them.

But why warn somebody about drinking too much of something? Seriously! Its a no brainier.

I've already explained why it is a good idea, see a page back.

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SaltyNZ

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#762585 14-Feb-2013 19:25

networkn:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:

Yet other people pay for things for you now

Such as?

Roading, Health, Defence, Policing,Education.......... to name a few

Infrastructure in general. Don't forget that you are using some of those things indirectly. Everything you consume will have an impact on those resources mentioned above.

Oh right, those things. Yes, I do enjoy those things. I couldn't get to work without roads to drive on. I also contribute a lot to paying for them, and I don't mind doing it, as they benefit everyone equally. (As aside I'm willing to bet the subject of our debate was more of a net consumer of public services). But I think I can manage not to kill myself without having to inconvenience everyone else with ugly signs and fences and so on.

You know what? We should just have a law that says 'it's illegal to be an idiot.' The definition of idiot would be anyone who does something that makes a jury blink and wonder to themselves how anyone could be so stupid.

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