Noisy trains.

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stevenz

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Topic # 100061 2-Apr-2012 17:23

I suspect for once the unemployed whiners brigade might actually have a point. In case folks missed it, the Johnsonville line in Wellington has some shiny new(ish) trains after 20-odd years off to-ing and fro-ing. According to some of the locals, the new ones are a lot louder than the old ones.

While it's not enough that it annoys me, I think they may be right, as previously I've never noticed being able to hear the trains from my bathroom previously, which is around 600m-ish as the crow flies from the Ngaio station with a small hill in the way.

Anyone else in the area who has noticed any obvious difference, or is it just that the wind has died down for a few days so that you can actually hear other noises for a change?

Apparently the horns are louder as well, but as they should only be using those by one of the 3 level crossings on the line near Simla Cres, Khandallah and Raroa stations. I've never heard them from where I am, but I'd be concerned if I could given the distance to the nearest crossing.

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Reply # 604164 2-Apr-2012 21:20

I actually thought they were quieter...

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mattwnz

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Reply # 604171 2-Apr-2012 21:33

stevenz: I suspect for once the unemployed whiners brigade might actually have a point. In case folks missed it, the Johnsonville line in Wellington has some shiny new(ish) trains after 20-odd years off to-ing and fro-ing. According to some of the locals, the new ones are a lot louder than the old ones.

While it's not enough that?it?annoys me, I think they may be right, as previously I've never noticed being able to hear the trains from my bathroom previously, which is?around 600m-ish as the crow flies from the Ngaio station with a small?hill in the way.

Anyone else in the area who has noticed any?obvious difference,?or is it just that the wind has died down for a few days so that you can actually hear other noises for a change?

Apparently the horns are louder as well, but as they should only be using those by one of the 3 level crossings on the line near Simla Cres, Khandallah and Raroa stations. I've never heard them from where I am, but I'd be concerned if I could given the distance to the nearest crossing.

You mean louder outside of the train? Well that doesn't really surprise me as they are probably more powerful, with more powerful motors, and they are probably traveling faster. They are however no louder than the 70's-80's ones. The previous ones on that line are close to 70 years old, and were slow and very noisy 'inside'. The new ones are far quieter inside, although about the same as the 70-80's ones. But the 70's-80's one weren't able to run on the Johnsonville line due to their size.

edge

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Reply # 604194 2-Apr-2012 22:04

Hard to imagine the Matangis being noisier - however I don't have any experience of listening to the English Electrics used on the J'ville line previously. I have been a commuter from Paraparaumu for a number of years however, and also live near the MTR between Paraparaumu and Waikanae. I can confirm that the new Matangis are significantly quieter and smoother from the inside, as a passenger. Having listened to the trains rumbling past since the Waikanae line extension opened, my (rather unscientific for a "scientist") sense is that there is little difference in external noise generated by the Ganz Mavag versus the Matangi - the Matangi may be a little quieter but, if so, it is marginal I would say.

Great to see the Matangis lifting the game in terms of comfort (more or less!) although not sure if the infrastructure (signals/power supplies etc) is completely sorted yet!!

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stevenz

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Reply # 604274 3-Apr-2012 07:44

In case I hadn't made it clear in the OP, I mean externally louder. I would hope that significantly newer trains would be quieter internally. I suspect the reason I can hear them now is just that the last few days have been unusually calm from a weather perspective which coincided with the news article about the noise.

I also didn't mean to imply that the trains WERE louder, just wondering what peoples thoughts were.

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vinnieg

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Reply # 604280 3-Apr-2012 07:49

Do you mean the track is louder? I think they have replaced most of the track, as well as the lines.

Unless you mean the new higher pitch electric motors?

I'd love it if we could do what Japan does, which is weld the track together, then smooth it off. And also laying the track over shock absorbing rubber. Which also absorbs the heat in summer, to stop it from warping.

On the Shinkansen, and even local trains, the ride is extremely smooth. Basically feels like you are in a plane

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stevenz

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Reply # 604289 3-Apr-2012 08:11

Isn't the Shinkansen a maglev though?

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vinnieg

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Reply # 604296 3-Apr-2012 08:28

stevenz: Isn't the Shinkansen a maglev though?

Not yet, they are currently operating on conventional width line, so can use most of the stations in Japan, with overhead lines

As far as I've heard, there is only 1 Maglev operating in Japan, and the other operating in Shanghai

Once the Maglev goes into production near Tokyo/Kobe/Kyoto I'll go use it. The current Linimo line seems to be failing a bit in financial terms, and technical ability(it sometimes has so many passengers it can't levitate, and can't go in winds greater than 25 m/s)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo

Unfortunately it's too out of the way, just for testing a train, so I don't think the wife would let us stop there for a day...

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floydbloke

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Reply # 604301 3-Apr-2012 08:41

vinnieg: ... the ride is extremely smooth. Basically feels like you are in a plane

You've not landed at Wellington very often I take it

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mckenndk

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Reply # 604305 3-Apr-2012 08:44

Went for my first ride on one the other day, but I thought they were quieter than the English Electric trains.
The things that will probably currently make a difference in the noise will be the brand new wheels and new rail up the Jville line as with the sharp curves you will always get the squealing but as the rails and wheels wear it might change.

All in all the customers I am sure are happy I went for a ride on the red EE before it melted some wiring and it was alot of noise inside but was supprised to see someone with ear plugs.
My first trip on the Matangi was up Jvill and it was a quiet and smooth ride with the only problem noticed people not use to the push buttons on the doors.

Alot of the network is welded rail, but only part of the Jville line is, the Hutt and Main Trunk are and im sure it takes more than rubber pads to stop the rails warping when they are welded.

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Reply # 604319 3-Apr-2012 08:57

I can never understand on the J'ville line why they didn't do what they did to the old Melbourne port line and convert it from heavy rail to tram operation. It would have been an ideal candidate as it has no other heavy rain traffic on it but i guess that's too simple for the politicians who run Wellington..

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vinnieg

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Reply # 604322 3-Apr-2012 08:58

floydbloke:
vinnieg: ... the ride is extremely smooth. Basically feels like you are in a plane

You've not landed at Wellington very often I take it

Haha :) Nah, only a few hundred times ;)

I find the little ATRs from Chch or Hamilton the best to land in!

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vinnieg

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Reply # 604324 3-Apr-2012 09:01

mckenndk:

Alot of the network is welded rail, but only part of the Jville line is, the Hutt and Main Trunk are and im sure it takes more than rubber pads to stop the rails warping when they are welded.

Dion

Are you sure they are using welded rail? Because the Tawa line still looks, and feels like jointed rail(at least round the tunnel towards Takapu Road? Looks welded near the stations, where I guess it feels a bit smoother.

Did they replace most of the sleepers with concrete ones after the refurbishment of the tracks?(Haven't been on in a few months since getting a work car/park)

Yeah, I should have added thermal expansion joints in with the rubber padding

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mckenndk

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Reply # 604353 3-Apr-2012 10:16

Are you sure they are using welded rail? Because the Tawa line still looks, and feels like jointed rail(at least round the tunnel towards Takapu Road? Looks welded near the stations, where I guess it feels a bit smoother.

Did they replace most of the sleepers with concrete ones after the refurbishment of the tracks?(Haven't been on in a few months since getting a work car/park)

Yeah, I should have added thermal expansion joints in with the rubber padding

I think it is all off and on going north as around Paekakariki there is some welded and jointed track, you need joints for signals, crossings etc so you can't get rid of it completely.

Majority of new track laid is concrete sleepers which the photos I saw of new track on the jville line were all concrete what will make more noise than wooden ones due to being able to absorbe less vibrations.
A good example of solid concrete floor is tunnel 7 on the Paekakariki coast when you go through that tunnel it is very noisy due to there being no balliast underfoot.

I know alot of the Hutt line is welded as they had to do it all over again when they did not do the welding properly last time (something to do with welding the rail after you have heated it to a neutral temperature so when you weld it the rail is already in its expanded state).

Dion

mckenndk

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Reply # 604360 3-Apr-2012 10:24

old3eyes: I can never understand on the J'ville line why they didn't do what they did to the old Melbourne port line and convert it from heavy rail to tram operation. It would have been an ideal candidate as it has no other heavy rain traffic on it but i guess that's too simple for the politicians who run Wellington..

It would mean a complete rebuild of the system and having to support different rolling stock, infrastructer, power voltage, etc.
Why completly rebuild something when you already have stations, rolling stock, staff trained in the current ways of doing things, signals etc.

You will probably have to find someone other than Tranz Metro to run it which will cause problems and Tranz Metro will not give up its staff trained in its equiptment to a new company as they struggle to get enough staff as it is.

Then you will also piss off the passangers who will have to travel every day by bus in busy traffic until the rebuild is complete.

There was talk years ago about turning it into a guided bus way what I am glad they did not as the ones I have used over seas were not a comfortable ride and I see the Edinburgh one has now been abandond and part of it being turned into a tramway.

Dion

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Reply # 604371 3-Apr-2012 10:37

vinnieg: As far as I've heard, there is only 1 Maglev operating in Japan, and the other operating in Shanghai

Done that. Town to airport in 1/4 of the time the bus takes. Half of the time the train speeds up to 430 Km/h. The other half of the time the train is slowing down to stop at the airport. After 300 Km/h it's all just a blur outside the windows. People stand up to take photos under the displays throughout the train showing the speed...

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