KFC double charging everyone

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tardtasticx

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#104847 21-Jun-2012 22:38

So late night trip to KFC, don't judge me, spend like $10 or something, inserted my ASB Mastercard, went to use the credit option, and the machine said "ASB Mastercard failed" or something along those lines.
So retried it, except it then said "ICC Declined" and just assumed that meant my card had an error, so paid for it using my debit card linked to a savings account and it went through fine. Wasn't too impressed so promptly rang the bank whilst in the car park.

Was told by ASB that there had been a payment from both my Savings account (debit card) and my Mastercard account, even though it said the Mastercard was declined twice. So, back into the store I went, they wanted receipts which I didn't get, and online banking doesnt update that quick for credit, so had to get them to speak to the bank to prove it, and then they gave me it back in cash ><

Got home, called bank again to find out what the problem was, she confirmed with supervisor that many customers had this problem today, where KFC was saying cards were declined, but they were still charging you. Not cool at all.

Just keep an eye out on your next statements haha.

Anyone else had this that they've noticed?

-Sam

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Networkn
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#644498 21-Jun-2012 22:46

It will not be intentional at all. Once they are aware of it they will request the bank to reverse the charges, which the banks will do.

Nothing to see here, everyone move along :)

tardtasticx

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#644500 21-Jun-2012 22:48

networkn: It will not be intentional at all. Once they are aware of it they will request the bank to reverse the charges, which the banks will do.

Nothing to see here, everyone move along :)

Its some global conspiracy :P
Its how KFC is beating the 'credit' crunch

CYaBro

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#644506 21-Jun-2012 23:07

Surely this is an EFTPOS machine or system problem and not anything KFC are doing?
If it was that easy to get into a machine, and change the messages that are displayed on it so it says an error or whatever when really it has taken the money from your account, then I'm sure we would have heard about this before now.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

nigelj

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#644512 21-Jun-2012 23:45

tardtasticx: So late night trip to KFC, don't judge me, spend like $10 or something, inserted my ASB Mastercard, went to use the credit option, and the machine said "ASB Mastercard failed" or something along those lines.
So retried it, except it then said "ICC Declined" and just assumed that meant my card had an error, so paid for it using my debit card linked to a savings account and it went through fine. Wasn't too impressed so promptly rang the bank whilst in the car park.

Was told by ASB that there had been a payment from both my Savings account (debit card) and my Mastercard account, even though it said the Mastercard was declined twice. So, back into the store I went, they wanted receipts which I didn't get, and online banking doesnt update that quick for credit, so had to get them to speak to the bank to prove it, and then they gave me it back in cash ><

Got home, called bank again to find out what the problem was, she confirmed with supervisor that many customers had this problem today, where KFC was saying cards were declined, but they were still charging you. Not cool at all.

Just keep an eye out on your next statements haha.

Anyone else had this that they've noticed?

-Sam

I had similar events in Australia with declined transactions, in my case it was with Westpac with the Mastercard + Amex Sidekick card, the Aussie EFTPos machines weren't keen on Amex+PIN & would decline the transaction. However I realised (due to making a couple of reasonable sized purchases that failed this way), they were double charging. The explanation I got from Westpac + what I worked together as logic upon my return (after questioning hotel regarding reserve they set and math I worked out the likely scenario while I was there) was:

- Amex+PIN transaction starts getting process
- Funds reserved at Westpac's end against card
- ???
- Australian system decides it's not happy with transaction and rejects it

The resolution was as simple as waiting util the businesses/hotels either presented their transactions, removed their holds on funds or for the 2 week timeout to kick in and it was all sorted out. I must say, massive props to the Westpac guy for been patient and explaining it all we went through basically every pending (unpresented) transaction on the card to make sure that was the case.

Edit: Meant to say, maybe the case today with KFC was that KFC/KFC's payment company was having issues with ASB cards and was accidentially rejecting them at some point? Would fit in with a similar process as happened to me.

tardtasticx

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#644520 22-Jun-2012 02:10

Totally, I know its not intentional at KFC's end. Just kind of annoying and if it hadn't been realised then quite a few people may have gone out of pocket as a result.

Quite a strange thing though, never heard of that happening. And to think it still happens in this day and age haha, credit cards are ancient things. Nothings perfect I guess.

I think the embarrassment of being declined was the worst thing. Haha.

matisyahu

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#644521 22-Jun-2012 04:30

tardtasticx: So late night trip to KFC, don't judge me, spend like $10 or something, inserted my ASB Mastercard, went to use the credit option, and the machine said "ASB Mastercard failed" or something along those lines.
So retried it, except it then said "ICC Declined" and just assumed that meant my card had an error, so paid for it using my debit card linked to a savings account and it went through fine. Wasn't too impressed so promptly rang the bank whilst in the car park.

Was told by ASB that there had been a payment from both my Savings account (debit card) and my Mastercard account, even though it said the Mastercard was declined twice. So, back into the store I went, they wanted receipts which I didn't get, and online banking doesnt update that quick for credit, so had to get them to speak to the bank to prove it, and then they gave me it back in cash ><

Got home, called bank again to find out what the problem was, she confirmed with supervisor that many customers had this problem today, where KFC was saying cards were declined, but they were still charging you. Not cool at all.

Just keep an eye out on your next statements haha.

Anyone else had this that they've noticed?

-Sam

I work at a fast food place and saw the same error too. One thing I always do is give the customer the receipt when the eftpos machine comes back with an error and tell the customer if they see any sort of strange things on their statement (I do hope you have the good common sense to use online banking and track things rather than waiting to the end of the month - we're living in 2012 with online banking and not 1952) they have something to show their bank.

Side note, lets not try to dig up conspiracy theories - I'd expect it on Facebook but I would have thought a technology orientated forum like this would at least result in people understanding that sometimes technology has hiccups.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

scheduler

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#644533 22-Jun-2012 08:07

I would be interested in knowing if by next Wednesday the double charge shows on your bank statement. I have seen this several times both as customer and merchant and each time the bank has automatically reversed the transaction within 2 days

Sharesies

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ToPGuNZ

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#644537 22-Jun-2012 08:13

I had this happen to me at a mobil service station recentlly. (ASB Visa card with chip). Bank said I needed to go back to mobil to sort out. The transaction was reversed out before I got a chance to get back to the station to discuss.

bazzer

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#644538 22-Jun-2012 08:14

tardtasticx: Totally, I know its not intentional at KFC's end. Just kind of annoying and if it hadn't been realised then quite a few people may have gone out of pocket as a result.

Quite a strange thing though, never heard of that happening. And to think it still happens in this day and age haha, credit cards are ancient things. Nothings perfect I guess.

I think the embarrassment of being declined was the worst thing. Haha.

Will you take the $10 back to KFC if/when the double transaction is reversed in due course?

trig42

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#644550 22-Jun-2012 08:47

bazzer:
tardtasticx: Totally, I know its not intentional at KFC's end. Just kind of annoying and if it hadn't been realised then quite a few people may have gone out of pocket as a result.

Quite a strange thing though, never heard of that happening. And to think it still happens in this day and age haha, credit cards are ancient things. Nothings perfect I guess.

I think the embarrassment of being declined was the worst thing. Haha.

Will you take the $10 back to KFC if/when the double transaction is reversed in due course?

I was just going to ask the same thing. It will probably get automatically reversed.

kiwiharry

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#644551 22-Jun-2012 09:00

OK. So the facts are now Mastercard have double charged and not KFC double charging everyone

If you can't laugh at yourself then you probably shouldn't laugh at others.

Batman

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#644555 22-Jun-2012 09:23

I have had weirder things happen.

Rented a car with AVIS australia.

After returning the car i was charged 3 times for it, but one was from credit card (the "funds hold" when you take the car out), two was from eftpos but although i swiped once and entered the pin once i was billed two amounts of similar but different figures! I had a my heart in my mouth boarding the flight home as suddenly i was out of pocket thrice over ...

On landing I rang the AVIS and said their eftpos machine must have malfunctioned and they reversed all three miraculously and then I thought I was rich and then they billed the correct amount via credit card which took a few days to force its way thru.

Kyanar

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#644989 23-Jun-2012 00:24

tardtasticx: Totally, I know its not intentional at KFC's end. Just kind of annoying and if it hadn't been realised then quite a few people may have gone out of pocket as a result.

Quite a strange thing though, never heard of that happening. And to think it still happens in this day and age haha, credit cards are ancient things. Nothings perfect I guess.

I think the embarrassment of being declined was the worst thing. Haha.

Actually, the ancient EFTPOS network is also prone to this in rare cases. A friend of mine once had this happen at a Countdown (back when it was called Big Fresh) where the EFTPOS transaction declined but the money still came out. This was using an old ASB Cashflow card (back when they still called them Cashflow cards - no one does that any more... Oh wait, TSB).

Not a conspiracy, just a system error. Nothing to see here.

More scary is when you do an EFTPOS transaction and the machine doesn't ask for your PIN, it just automatically says "Accepted with sig". Apparently this means the system couldn't process the transaction (and you don't have a chip - chip cards actually know what their PIN is) and did an offline auth instead (which means it won't show up on your statement until later too).

richms

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#645030 23-Jun-2012 10:29

Always ask for the failed transaction printouts. Had one place try to not give it so I had to get the manager.

It says customer copy on it. So it's mine. Why would they print 2 otherwise?

Richard rich.ms

sbiddle

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#645031 23-Jun-2012 10:36

Kyanar:
tardtasticx: Totally, I know its not intentional at KFC's end. Just kind of annoying and if it hadn't been realised then quite a few people may have gone out of pocket as a result.

Quite a strange thing though, never heard of that happening. And to think it still happens in this day and age haha, credit cards are ancient things. Nothings perfect I guess.

I think the embarrassment of being declined was the worst thing. Haha.

Actually, the ancient EFTPOS network is also prone to this in rare cases. A friend of mine once had this happen at a Countdown (back when it was called Big Fresh) where the EFTPOS transaction declined but the money still came out. This was using an old ASB Cashflow card (back when they still called them Cashflow cards - no one does that any more... Oh wait, TSB).

Not a conspiracy, just a system error. Nothing to see here.

More scary is when you do an EFTPOS transaction and the machine doesn't ask for your PIN, it just automatically says "Accepted with sig". Apparently this means the system couldn't process the transaction (and you don't have a chip - chip cards actually know what their PIN is) and did an offline auth instead (which means it won't show up on your statement until later too).

An offline EOV transaction will always require a signature regardless of whether it's from a cheque/savings account or a credit card. EMV6.0 or greater terminals will automatically switch to EOV mode if they have no connectivity. For older EMV5.2 terminals EOV mode was a special feature that was typically only available to large retailers such as supermarkets and petrol stations where it critical to have it.

What you've described sounds like a PIN less transaction which are now pretty common. Any Paypass/Paywave capable terminal doesn't require a PIN for transactions less than $80, and most fast food retailers such as McDonalds who haven't enabled Paypass/Paywave despite having terminals that are capable have also implimented this.

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