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Topic # 113430 16-Jan-2013 19:58
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Some people never learn. Got a phone call today, number withheld, bad voice quality, obviously a recorded message telling me they can save me money on my insurance etc etc. No names used, no number to call, no indication of who the company was etc etc.

Message went beep, I gave a false name and then waited - their machine finally hung up on me after 3 minutes. (I seriouly hope it was a toll call).

In due course (hours later) got a call back from 02825521540

Turns out the company is called getadvice, which has an identical website to advisor konnect adn they are calling using a machine.

I have tracked down their company information on companies office and am considering calling the director at his home number to complain. Anyway -

According to the telcommunications bill 1987, clause 100 :

This clause also makes it an offence to use, cause or permit to be used, any telephone station:
"for the purpose of disturbing, annoying, or irritating any person, whether by calling up without speech or by wantonly or maliciously transmitting communications or sounds, with the intention of offending the recipient."

  "Telephone station" is defined in clause 2, as it was in the 1987 Act, as:
"Telephone station means any terminal device capable of being used for transmitting or receiving any communications over a network designed for the transmission of voice communication."(4)

The offences carry up to three months imprisonment or a $2,000 fine. Prior to a 1988 amendment the maximum penalty had been one year's imprisonment.

Offensive calls can sometimes be characterised as an intrusion into privacy. Recipients of calls at their home perceive their private space has been violated. Sometimes the nuisance calls also involve an element of targeted harassment where the caller knows personal information about the person being called. In other cases, calls are simply made at random.



Personally i am very offended. I am annoyed by the repeated calls, I am offended they call  me without disclosing who they are and I am out of pocket for time and productivity lost.

I wonder if people using crappy systems like this with robots calling, no identification, withheld phone numbers etc can be prosecuted. While I may only have been hit once or twice by them the hundreds of people they annoy, disrupt and cause loss of productivity must make it a major annoyance or offence surely?

Wouldnt a recorded voice qualify as without speech? After all every definition f speech in the dictionary involves a person talking or making utterance, not a recording.

Please - let there be a lawyer out there who tells me I am right, decides to ride in on a white horse, take up a civil suit and destoy these PIT necks - hanging them out as an example to all other wanton time wasters and get rich wannabes.


PS - feel free to black list the following:

Website: http://getadvice.co.nz/
Associated withL: adviserkonnect.co.nz
Phone number: +64-9-573-1474
Also phoned from 02825521540

On the other hand - is a DOS attack via phone an offence? Am I allowed to phone them up and complain? Should I make my own recording and play it back to them? Hmmm ... if only I had friends (other than my imaginary facebook ones) who each made 1 phone call and they had friends who each made one phone call, and so on nad so on and so on - it may not happen over night but it would happen (or so Rachel tells me) - end of stupid recorded phone calls.





nunz

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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 745907 16-Jan-2013 20:13
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One thing you can do to limit calls of any type is to put your details on the do-not-call list (there is also a do-not-mail list).

If you do get calls (though they need to be from a person) then say that you're on the list.

http://www.marketing.org.nz/Category?Action=View&Category_id=256






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  Reply # 745910 16-Jan-2013 20:16
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Fom their "Terms" page:


You may request access to, or correction of, any personal information we hold about you by contacting our privacy officer at:

Telephone: +64 (9) 573-1474

Email: info@getadvice.co.nz

Post:
Privacy Officer
Get Advice Ltd
PO Box 132-336, Sylvia Park
Mt Wellington
Auckland
New Zealand




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  Reply # 746015 16-Jan-2013 22:53
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I have the exact same calls! They keep on calling and calling and calling that it gets to the point where it is extremely unbearable! It even went into voicemail!




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  Reply # 746020 16-Jan-2013 22:57
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The joys of having no phone plugged into the landline

As far as I'm concerned I don't have a home number and everyone gets a cell# instead

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  Reply # 746024 16-Jan-2013 23:07
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JamesL: The joys of having no phone plugged into the landline 

As far as I'm concerned I don't have a home number and everyone gets a cell# instead


Yeap, if someone wants to phone me, they can pay for that privilege. Eliminates the phone spam, and means you only get calls that are more important. Landlines these days are a largely a waste of time, with all the scam voip calls. The only reason I have one as that you need a line for the internet, and not having a landline is not really any cheaper.

That said, I still get automated calls from BNZ after phoning them, where they phone me with an automated customer survey, which I just hang up on. Wish the BNZ would stop those calls, but I think they will become more and more popular.

Talk DIrtY to me
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  Reply # 746068 17-Jan-2013 06:59
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We don't get very many phone calls on the land line, but having the number unlisted certainly cuts down on spam calls.




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  Reply # 746138 17-Jan-2013 09:21
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If only more telcos would follow call plus's lead and allow users to block these damn withheld numbers.

I have noticed a trend recently of many coming thru with simply no number which italk and 2talk let thru, but I guess they can fix that too if it becomes a problem.




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  Reply # 746148 17-Jan-2013 09:30
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DarthKermit: We don't get very many phone calls on the land line, but having the number unlisted certainly cuts down on spam calls.


True - Having a listed number is a liability these days - I can see the phone directory going the way of the dinosaur.
Sadly its the annoying spam marketing that is killing it.
We used to get driven crazy with all sorts of withheld number spam callers. Since unlisting our number its dropped off greatly.

I suppose that if the phone directory starts declining substantially spammers will just start computer dialling every number combo Frown




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  Reply # 746152 17-Jan-2013 09:36
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The reason that they call from the phone directory is that they can legitimately say they have removed your number from the database by removing it, then after that calling run throw out that book and get another one for the next run.

When more people remove them I expect that electronic databases will become more and more common, like they are for real spammers.




Richard rich.ms



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Reply # 746278 17-Jan-2013 11:57
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robjg63:
DarthKermit: We don't get very many phone calls on the land line, but having the number unlisted certainly cuts down on spam calls.


True - Having a listed number is a liability these days - I can see the phone directory going the way of the dinosaur.
Sadly its the annoying spam marketing that is killing it.
We used to get driven crazy with all sorts of withheld number spam callers. Since unlisting our number its dropped off greatly.

I suppose that if the phone directory starts declining substantially spammers will just start computer dialling every number combo Frown


I would love to see the Telecommunications act amended to be similar to the spam act with the requirements as follows:
  • Say who authorized the call
  • Have a contact number to get the calls not to come through
  • Have a complaints process independent of the telecommunications companies
Phones books or electronic directories are necessary - how do you find the number of a supplier, person etc without it? skypes process for getting new numbers is good - request authorisation before allowing calls. A good middle step between open dir and no listings for those who want it. 

A lot of the robot stuff used to just work through a lsit of phone numbers, incrementing one at a time - so you would get a rash of calls in the same area - having no listing wont stop that. 

2talk let you bar unlisted numbers but that cuts out some of my business calls. Maybe a system to put unlisted customers to a delay such as directing them to a special voice message. 

Blue Frog?? I think it was had an idea to stop spammers - sign up with blue frog, send a copy of each spam mail received to blue frog. They tried to contact involved parties to say stop it, if the parties failed to respond blue frog sent a message to each person spammed by the involved parties with a script to auto email, fill in a web form etc etc - effectively a denial of service attack. 

Maybe a similar system for voice, get a membership of people, when people get hit by robots etc send a message to the list with a phone number to call, an email to email etc requesting to not be called by the phone spammers involved and a message of disapproval of their systems. clag up enough phone numbers and emails and eventually they would get the message.  Voice DOS - all very legal. Anyone keen to try >:)










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  Reply # 746302 17-Jan-2013 12:32
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richms: If only more telcos would follow call plus's lead and allow users to block these damn withheld numbers.

I have noticed a trend recently of many coming thru with simply no number which italk and 2talk let thru, but I guess they can fix that too if it becomes a problem.


The problem there is I know of one SIP provider that encourages their customers to spoof CLID.   When this customer calls us we get 0000 as their CLID and they are calling from NZ..




Regards,

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  Reply # 746436 17-Jan-2013 16:11
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old3eyes:
richms: If only more telcos would follow call plus's lead and allow users to block these damn withheld numbers.

I have noticed a trend recently of many coming thru with simply no number which italk and 2talk let thru, but I guess they can fix that too if it becomes a problem.


The problem there is I know of one SIP provider that encourages their customers to spoof CLID.   When this customer calls us we get 0000 as their CLID and they are calling from NZ..


Well they need to resolve their system so it works. IMO businesses should never withhold ID.




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  Reply # 746443 17-Jan-2013 16:15
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richms: If only more telcos would follow call plus's lead and allow users to block these damn withheld numbers.

I have noticed a trend recently of many coming thru with simply no number which italk and 2talk let thru, but I guess they can fix that too if it becomes a problem.


I have a phone that allows you to block numbers, but not sure if it will block withheld ones. I have 0000 blocked though. Just means the phone doesn't ring when they call.

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  Reply # 756648 6-Feb-2013 17:51
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Well, another one to blame on Labour then. From an unrelated article on Stuff:

"Demetriou said there was currently nothing the department could do about ??robot?? automated calls to people?s home phones.

A life insurance firm was last week cold-calling people with unsolicited recorded messages to market its services.

Although the Unsolicited Electronic Messages Act bans almost all spam electronic communications, the act?s original architect, former Labour communications minister David Cunliffe, carved out a specific exception for spam recorded telephone calls."

I say unrelated because I received the press release about Run the Red. Obviously Stuff thought it worthwhile writing about it - good on Tom PS for actually getting more information than just running the story as suggested.




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