Landlording III

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Linuxluver

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Topic # 114384 18-Feb-2013 11:35

OK....so the tenant with whom I had an agreement has left. But one of his mates who was also living there (and with whom I had no agreement) remains in the flat.

He had said he would leave on Saturday, but now says that fell through and he has nowhere to go.

He's not paying any rent. He has no money.

He is, I guess, now a squatter.

The Tenancy tribunal says this is now a separate matter to my existing application for ending the tenancy as the tenant of record has now left and the tenancy is now over.

They say I must now file a new application for possession seeking an order for the squatter to leave. I'm not sure what good a piece of paper will do as I have already told him to leave...and he hasn't.

In the meantime, I discovered the tenant (who has now left) had changed the locks and I don't have a key. That person is now not responding to calls or texts requesting I be provided with a key.

I've filed a new application, but I'm not sure I can't just call the police. I might try it. Someone has effectively taken my property and won't give it back.

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Chief Trash Bandit
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Reply # 764070 18-Feb-2013 11:40

If you have asked him to leave, and he is not on any paperwork, then dont think the cops will have a problem moving him along.

It isnt your fault he has nowhere to go.

Sounds like you may already have to pay out for new keys/locks, you dont want to be losing more money by not being able to rent the place out because some idiot forgot to organize somewhere to live.

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ajobbins

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Reply # 764073 18-Feb-2013 11:41

If someone is squatting in your house, can't you just have the police remove them?

Surely there is no tenancy law to follow because there is no tenancy, no tenant etc

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Klipspringer

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Reply # 764083 18-Feb-2013 11:49

ajobbins: If someone is squatting in your house, can't you just have the police remove them?

Surely there is no tenancy law to follow because there is no tenancy, no tenant etc

Don't think so. But as far as I know there is nothing stopping the owner from moving back into his own house and makin the squatters life a misery.

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Reply # 764094 18-Feb-2013 11:59

Why a new thread?

ajobbins

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Reply # 764099 18-Feb-2013 12:06

Klipspringer: Don't think so. But as far as I know there is nothing stopping the owner from moving back into his own house and makin the squatters life a misery.

But the squatter has no legal right to be there. Isn't think just like me walking into your house, unpacking my stuff and refusing to leave?

A quick calls to the cops and I am sure I would be promptly removed. You wouldn't have to take me to the tenancy tribunal.

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Reply # 764113 18-Feb-2013 12:29

Ok, spoke with a property manager - she said cops can?t get involved, they?ll just say it?s a tenancy issue.
Contact Tenancy Tribunal ASAP and explain the situation to them, it will fall onto the "legal" tenant to sort things out because he is responsible for what was going on and left the other guy there.

She also said mention the lock changing as well - you may have to give your unwanted tenant 14 days notice but he will have to go.

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Klipspringer

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Reply # 764114 18-Feb-2013 12:33

ajobbins:
Klipspringer: Don't think so. But as far as I know there is nothing stopping the owner from moving back into his own house and makin the squatters life a misery.

But the squatter has no legal right to be there. Isn't think just like me walking into your house, unpacking my stuff and refusing to leave?

A quick calls to the cops and I am sure I would be promptly removed. You wouldn't have to take me to the tenancy tribunal.

Nope its not that easy. And the squatter knows this.

Unfortunately the law in New Zealand seems to be on the tenants side in most cases. Good luck at trying to get this guy evicted.

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Reply # 764117 18-Feb-2013 12:34

xpd: Ok, spoke with a property manager - she said cops can?t get involved, they?ll just say it?s a tenancy issue.
Contact Tenancy Tribunal ASAP and explain the situation to them, it will fall onto the "legal" tenant to sort things out because he is responsible for what was going on and left the other guy there.

She also said mention the lock changing as well - you may have to give your unwanted tenant 14 days notice but he will have to go.

But the previous tenancy has now officially ended, right? So there is no 'tenancy', this guy is just a squatter.

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Mark

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Reply # 764118 18-Feb-2013 12:35

Not got any large scary looking friends to have a polite chat with him ?

reven

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Reply # 764120 18-Feb-2013 12:37

say a show on squatters in the UK, different country different laws but maybe the same law here, where police wouldnt do anything about squatters as they weren't breaking a law, and the owners spent months trying to get them out of their house. in Scotland, the police could be called in and remove the trespasses.

there was a loop hole, where if the person didnt break in, and the door was opened, they could come in and stay. So they would work in teams, one person would bust open the door, walk away and the other group would then enter an opened building.

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Reply # 764134 18-Feb-2013 13:01

I'm not a lawyer but would this not be considered trespassing and if you warn them as such and they do not comply then you can indeed call the police to remove them from the property.

trig42

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Reply # 764154 18-Feb-2013 13:44

I think the difference between a squatter and a trespasser is that the squatter has gained 'lawful' possesion of the property (ie., they were a tenant, but their tenancy expired, or they did not break and enter). A trespasser (who the Police can arrest) gains unlawfule possession.

how that is interpreted is anybodies guess. My take on the OPs situation would be that his 'squatter' did not gain lawful possession because they were not the tenant, but on the other hand, they did not break into the property.

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Reply # 764166 18-Feb-2013 14:05

I don't see how it could ever be a tenancy issue as a) the person never entered into a tenancy agreement at any time and b) the tenancy agreement with the previous tenant has ended.

Either the previous tenancy agreement is still running, and you would seek to take possession based on that (given that the previous tenant allowed this person access), or this person is illegally squatting and therefore have police remove.

How can you take someone to the tenancy tribunal that you don't have a tenancy agreement with?

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Reply # 764173 18-Feb-2013 14:15

Sounds tricky. My take on it is that the person has no lawful right to be there as they were never part of any tenancy agreement. Trespass would be my first port of call, but have a quick chat with a suitably qualified person first.

If you get a positive outcome from that, take a notebook and mate as a witness. Tell the chap he is trespassing and request his details. If he refuses to provide these he is committing an offence against s9 of the Trespass Act. Verbally trespass him and make a note of the time you do this. Note: he has to be given a reasonable amount of time to leave.

If he's not gone in about 30 minutes, call the police and advise them of the steps you've taken and they'll warn the guy to move on. If he refuses he'll get locked up. When he's gone, change the locks and board up the windows.

ajobbins

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Reply # 764177 18-Feb-2013 14:21

trig42: I think the difference between a squatter and a trespasser is that the squatter has gained 'lawful' possession of the property (ie., they were a tenant, but their tenancy expired, or they did not break and enter). A trespasser (who the Police can arrest) gains unlawful possession.

I suppose you could argue that when he was let in originally by the former tenant, he lawfully gained possession at that point, however if he now leaves the property at any time and returns, he is illegally entering the property. I would guess that as the locks have been changed unlawfully, he is using an illegal means to enter the property - he might as well smash a window to get it. Thoughts?

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