'Trading as' rules.

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Aaroona

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#114640 26-Feb-2013 12:50

Are there any? Im curious because I'm trying to look up a companies records and I cannot find any reference to them at all.

The website is listed as "blah blah blah Ltd" but there are no records in Companiesoffice.
I looked up the name of the "Director" and I can't seen to find him listed anywhere for any company either.

Do companies have to list their registered company name when presenting them to customers? i.e. the average joe bloggs wouldn't go and look up the companies registered details, they'd generally just take it at face value (e.g. Business cards or a website).

I often see companies shown as "Company 1 Ltd, trading as Company 2"- is this voluntary?

mattwnz

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#770449 26-Feb-2013 13:29

As far as I am aware and IANAL, if a business is calling themselves blah blah blah Ltd, then they have to be listed as a registered company. However I believe a company can call themselves something as that isn't registered as a company, but they can't use 'ltd' after the name, and it has to be in their contract. eg a company can trade under 'Wonderful Widgets', and in their contract they would put blah blah blah Ltd T/A Wonderful Widgets. As long as Wonderful Widgets doesn't use 'Ltd' after the name.
If you see a company called blah blah blah Ltd, and they aren't listed in the companies office website, then you may want to contact the companies office about it. I have come across companies like that myself in that past, that call themselves ltd, but aren't registered. One reason is that they may not have gotten around to registering it, or it may have been setup by kids who didn't even know about registration.

scuwp

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#770457 26-Feb-2013 13:34

A registered (Limited liability or "Ltd") company cannot 'trade as' another limited liability company. A proviso to this is that one company can have shares or act as a subsidiary, however it is always the last entity (company) in the chain that is the legal operating entity.

Put simply a registered company can trade under any name it chooses provided it does not breach any patents or registered trademarks.

E.G Geekzone Accounting Limited can "trade as" Geekzone Cafe...which is the name on the door. cards, invoices etc. But ultimately Geekzone Accounting Limited is the responsible and controlling entity.

If there is a "limited" or "Ltd" in the name that denotes a registered entity, if it is not in the company register then they are using the "Ltd" illegally and you should let the companies office know.

Sole traders do not have to registered and can call themselves whatever they like, provided they don't use "Ltd" at the end.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

johnmo

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#770466 26-Feb-2013 13:40

Any registered Limited Liability company (IE they can describe as Ltd or Limited on the end of the name) must show the full legal name on any legal documentation.

IE Invoices, receipts, orders etc as well as any contracts.

So a GST Invoice must have the legal name on it. You can add Trading as "abc" as well if you wish.
A limited Liability company is a unique entity and as such has to show its real name.

Trading as is just a name typically for marketing purposes.

geocom

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#770485 26-Feb-2013 14:03

Is the company a New Zealand company? That would be the only valid reason it is not showing up.

E.G Spotify show on there NZ page Spotify Ltd because they are registered with the UK Companies Office who also use Ltd for limited companies.

Geoff E

mattwnz

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#770508 26-Feb-2013 14:42

geocom: Is the company a New Zealand company? That would be the only valid reason it is not showing up.

E.G Spotify show on there NZ page Spotify Ltd because they are registered with the UK Companies Office who also use Ltd for limited companies.

Yes this is quite confusing , as there are businesses trading in NZ which aren't registered in NZ as a company. They may have NZ domain, a NZ phone number, and even an NZ office, but they could be completely foreign owned, and they may not even pay taxes like GST in NZ. The best thing to do is to contact them providing full legal details and GST number if you want to do business with them. This is important as I recently found, becuase if they aren't registered for GST, then you can't claim back the GST on purchases, which can be a big cost to businesses.

johnmo

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#770516 26-Feb-2013 14:51

Dont forget that a NZ based business does not need to be a registered company to be GST registered. They are two different things.

Any entity trading in NZ can be registred for GST wether they are NZ or overseas owned.

Simply, if you turn over $60K pa then you must be GST registered but you can register if turning over less. The advantage of being registred is of course you can claim GST back on any costs that are related to the business.

A person, partnership and company are all able to be GST registered.

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Kyanar

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#770563 26-Feb-2013 15:46

mattwnz: Yes this is quite confusing , as there are businesses trading in NZ which aren't registered in NZ as a company. They may have NZ domain, a NZ phone number, and even an NZ office, but they could be completely foreign owned, and they may not even pay taxes like GST in NZ. The best thing to do is to contact them providing full legal details and GST number if you want to do business with them. This is important as I recently found, becuase if they aren't registered for GST, then you can't claim back the GST on purchases, which can be a big cost to businesses.

Actually, a foreign company trading with a physical presence in NZ would actually register as an overseas company with the Companies Office, and they would show in a search (and be required to submit records to the Companies Office). Most of the overseas conglomerates just tend to register as an Unlimited Liability Company instead as a subsidiary of their parent company (as is the case with Pandora and Apple - Microsoft and Google registered a real Limited Liability Company instead).

Aaroona

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#771108 27-Feb-2013 15:35

Spoke to the "Director" today, and he said "It will be a registered name in April, at the start of the knew financial year". He immediately new what I Was talking about when I said I couldn't find his business details...

Something smells a little fishy to me.

Goosey

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#771124 27-Feb-2013 16:02

Aaroona: Spoke to the "Director" today, and he said "It will be a registered name in April, at the start of the knew financial year". He immediately new what I Was talking about when I said I couldn't find his business details...

Something smells a little fishy to me.

Id say hes trying to have a clean tax year and without any income hassels for the present tax year given its only a month away from ending. i.e. they are tryna keep the tax bill down with this new company being formed.

Edit: you prolly find most of the paper work has been completed by them and they simply need to formally register on the 1st of May.

Aaroona

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#771125 27-Feb-2013 16:03

Gooseybhai:
Aaroona: Spoke to the "Director" today, and he said "It will be a registered name in April, at the start of the knew financial year". He immediately new what I Was talking about when I said I couldn't find his business details...

Something smells a little fishy to me.

Id say hes trying to have a clean tax year and without any income hassels for the present tax year given its only a month away from ending. i.e. they are tryna keep the tax bill down with this new company being formed.

If his company was only 1 month old, I could undertand, but he's been around for a little while under this name.

Handle9

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#771127 27-Feb-2013 16:06

Aaroona: Spoke to the "Director" today, and he said "It will be a registered name in April, at the start of the knew financial year". He immediately new what I Was talking about when I said I couldn't find his business details...

Something smells a little fishy to me.

If he's trading as a sole trader or in a partnership then he doesn't have to be in a registered limited liabilty company. He is personally responsible for all income and liabilities etc. This is very common especially with regards to tradesmen who are starting up.

He can also call himself whatever he likes, providing he's not infringing on anyone elses trademarks etc.

Companies can also trade as whatever name they choose and have a seperate registered company name. An example of this is a popular technology community website who's registered company name does not bear any resemblance to the trading name of the website.