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Topic # 125742 17-Jul-2013 21:47
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Take a look at the Clemenger group employment terms on the Grad connection website.

Link    <- click 'our talent programme' tab

Part of the programme has you 'volunteering' for 3 months in return for $150 per week to cover 'costs', from there, those that prove themselves to be a good fit will be asked to move into a no guarantees 6 month programme at entry level wages.

Is this a shady practice to have people 'volunteer' rather than actually employing them for a 3 month trial?

To be fair I'm not sure what the hours are. However it seems to be pitched as your typical grad programme...




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  Reply # 858408 18-Jul-2013 07:22
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isn't this known as an internship is the US?

It did make me laugh, and I paraphrase "work for free for 3 months and we MIGHT put you on full time at minimum wage for 6 months!

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  Reply # 858414 18-Jul-2013 07:57
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I've heard of a few businesses doing this lately.
It can benefit both parties as the business gets some new ideas from a fresh graduate and the grad gets valuable experience.




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  Reply # 858419 18-Jul-2013 08:17
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only if a graduate can afford to work for free does it benefit them. gives an unfair advantage to those already at a financial advantage.

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  Reply # 858420 18-Jul-2013 08:23
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Just a play on our new 90day no questions asked termination policy by the sound of it. They have the ability to pay you a lot less for a 90 day/3 month period and ditch you if they see fit at the end of it. Or hire you and up your pay for a ~6month + term.

I recall watching a movie instating it recently. They would call different employment agencies every 3 months for someone to do the same crappy filing/photocopying job they had as it was a lot cheaper stating the last person didn't work out so well :)

http://www.workplacelaw.co.nz/WHATS+NEW/July+2011/90+Day+Trial+Clause.html

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  Reply # 862082 19-Jul-2013 12:51
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 Since they are a communications company I'm going to pitch this tag line for their online marketing.

"Hey - we're f@cking cheapskates and we exploit students too!"

I thought we were supposed to be evolving away from a low wage economy into an educated high wage society. Give me strength - companies like this should be boycotted.

Let’s be clear - it is not an internship - it is exploitation of vulnerable graduates. We'll be having cigars offered up as a point of difference before we know it!

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  Reply # 862125 19-Jul-2013 13:25
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I don't see a problem with it, no one's forcing the grads to "work" there.






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  Reply # 862130 19-Jul-2013 13:38
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CYaBro: I don't see a problem with it, no one's forcing the grads to "work" there.


I believe Clemenger is one of the largest marketing agencies in NZ,  I think most graduates are desperate for any job in a competitive market, especially employment with a leader in the field.  

I think it's unfair to say that that they're not forced to work there, when most graduates need a job pretty badly.

I think the problem is that if they're required to work 'full time' for $150 a week, anyone that is unhappy with that will be seen as 'not a right fit' for the organisation and let go.

If they only work part time in the position that isn't so bad.

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  Reply # 862136 19-Jul-2013 13:56
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The 90 day trial period only applies to small businesses, so they can't use that.

I don't know about the legalities of such an arrangement, but I would have assumed you couldn't do that (Or else everyone would?)




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  Reply # 862156 19-Jul-2013 14:38
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ajobbins: The 90 day trial period only applies to small businesses, so they can't use that.

I don't know about the legalities of such an arrangement, but I would have assumed you couldn't do that (Or else everyone would?)

 Couple of wee points.

- Any company, no matter their size can use the 90 day fire at will provisions. It is fraught with difficulty but can be done.

- Clemenger seem to be unaware of the definition of a "worker" which also includes a person intending to work. They are just ripe for an ambulance chasing advocate to pursue PG’s against them from affected graduates.

Give them their dues though. Nothing like a communications company trying to redefine the common definition of "voluntary". Here was me thinking it was all about giving ones time to a community good. But no, they prefer to take from the vulnerable for their own personal gain.

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  Reply # 862166 19-Jul-2013 14:58
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Actually wouldn't a full working week at $150.00 be under minimum working wage?

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  Reply # 862215 19-Jul-2013 15:47
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Lazarui: Actually wouldn't a full working week at $150.00 be under minimum working wage?


Yes, that's why they want people to 'volunteer' to work there and give the $150/w to 'cover costs' not as actual pay.

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  Reply # 862224 19-Jul-2013 16:04
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BlueShift:
Lazarui: Actually wouldn't a full working week at $150.00 be under minimum working wage?


Yes, that's why they want people to 'volunteer' to work there and give the $150/w to 'cover costs' not as actual pay.


Should send them a oxford English Dictionary:
vol·un·teer / Noun: A person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task. Verb: Freely offer to do something.
and
em·ploy·ee Noun: A person employed for wages or salary, esp. a nonexecutive.



(on a side note I don't know whats up with this new editor it's screwing on this I.E.

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  Reply # 862630 20-Jul-2013 15:47
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I don't see how that can in any way even remotely be legal in New Zealand. The 90 day employment trial period is one thing - but this is nothing more than taking undue advantage of desperate people.

DOL (uh, now "MBIE" I guess) needs to knock this sort of thing on the head if you ask me.




---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


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  Reply # 862639 20-Jul-2013 16:12
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Are they expecting people to go on the dole during the volunteer period.? I Mean people need to live, and if people go on the dole it would appear the tax payer is subsiding this volunteer period. It is not as though these companies can't afford to pay either, even at the minimum wage.

IANAL but in my personal opinion, the 90 day bill should cover this, so that is what businesses should use if they want to try out people, before employing them full time.

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  Reply # 863334 22-Jul-2013 07:26
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If a volunteer period becomes common practice to try out for a job - then it pushes those not in a position for fund themselves for a volunteer period further down the pecking order.

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