Does current NZ govt practise democracy? (falun gong)

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nakedmolerat

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#171935 6-May-2015 09:53

Mfat issues warning to National MPs against Falun Gong celebrations due to China 'sensitivities'. - nz herald

Our local decision is influenced by overseas government? What happen to freedom of association? Why MPs are not allowed to visit their electrorate function? In fact they were told to report to mfat if they receive any invitation... Why?

Falun Gong or Falun Dafa (literally means "Dharma Wheel Practice" or "Law Wheel Practice") is a Chinese spiritual practice that combines meditation and qigong exercises with a moral philosophy centered on the tenets of Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance (Chinese: 真、善、忍) - wikipedia

Thoughts?

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#1298857 6-May-2015 09:59

Of course NZ Government decisions are influenced by other Governments especially extremely important trading partners.

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nakedmolerat

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#1298858 6-May-2015 10:01

MikeB4: Of course NZ Government decisions are influenced by other Governments especially extremely important trading partners.

So an MP, voted by the electorate, invited to a function, cannot attend the local function because overseas government does not like it?

This is fair?

DarthKermit

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#1298860 6-May-2015 10:02

Yeah, don't rock the boat with our Chinese overlords.

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Handsomedan

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#1298868 6-May-2015 10:12

When free trade agreements are being negotiated, Government employees are bound to be put under certain restrictions.

I'd imagine that some other time,. it'd be of little consequence, but the Government is likely doing some trade deal or other and is simply playing it safe.

You have to remember that as a representative of the Government, they ARE the Government in certain circumstances.

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scuwp

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#1298870 6-May-2015 10:13

Its more important to be seen doing the right thing, than actually doing the right thing. It's all about appearances.

I would think the 'order' is a breach of the Bill of Rights...freedom of thought, conscience or religion, freedom of association, freedom of movement...etc

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Dairyxox

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#1298875 6-May-2015 10:25

What if it was a Taliban celebration, and it might offend American sensitivities?
I'm sure they have religious texts that sound really good too.

MikeB4

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#1298882 6-May-2015 10:31

nakedmolerat:
MikeB4: Of course NZ Government decisions are influenced by other Governments especially extremely important trading partners.

So an MP, voted by the electorate, invited to a function, cannot attend the local function because overseas government does not like it?

This is fair?

It is the reality of being part of the international community. MFAT issues these sorts of warnings all the time, it is still up to the MP's and the Caucus as to if the warnings are heeded.
I would sincerely hope that will in this instance.

old3eyes

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#1298887 6-May-2015 10:37

MikeB4:
nakedmolerat:
MikeB4: Of course NZ Government decisions are influenced by other Governments especially extremely important trading partners.

So an MP, voted by the electorate, invited to a function, cannot attend the local function because overseas government does not like it?

This is fair?

It is the reality of being part of the international community. MFAT issues these sorts of warnings all the time, it is still up to the MP's and the Caucus as to if the warnings are heeded.
I would sincerely hope that will in this instance.

Why?? Are you against freedom of association. Just because it's china pulling the strings the MPs should go where they want to or are we now a part of the Chinese state??

Regards,

Old3eyes

deadlyllama

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#1298898 6-May-2015 10:50

nakedmolerat: Mfat issues warning to National MPs against Falun Gong celebrations due to China 'sensitivities'. - nz herald

Our local decision is influenced by overseas government? What happen to freedom of association? Why MPs are not allowed to visit their electrorate function? In fact they were told to report to mfat if they receive any invitation... Why?

Falun Gong or Falun Dafa (literally means "Dharma Wheel Practice" or "Law Wheel Practice") is a Chinese spiritual practice that combines meditation and qigong exercises with a moral philosophy centered on the tenets of Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance (Chinese: 真、善、忍) - wikipedia

Thoughts?

You're talking about a government which cancelled ECan (canterbury regional council) elections in 2012 and installed their own appointees instead, so no, they don't practice democracy. Does that answer your question?

MikeB4

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#1298909 6-May-2015 10:58

old3eyes:
MikeB4:
nakedmolerat:
MikeB4: Of course NZ Government decisions are influenced by other Governments especially extremely important trading partners.

So an MP, voted by the electorate, invited to a function, cannot attend the local function because overseas government does not like it?

This is fair?

It is the reality of being part of the international community. MFAT issues these sorts of warnings all the time, it is still up to the MP's and the Caucus as to if the warnings are heeded.
I would sincerely hope that will in this instance.

Why?? Are you against freedom of association. Just because it's china pulling the strings the MPs should go where they want to or are we now a part of the Chinese state??

So you would be quite happy to see trade deals suspended and our massive exports to China stopped and the resulting rise in unemployment etc etc etc

frankv

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#1298923 6-May-2015 11:18

Whilst I wouldn't be happy to see trade with China restricted, I do think that we shouldn't sell our principles for a few (billion) dollars.

And, bottom line, the reason China trades with us is because it's in their economic interest to do so. While it remains their best option, they will continue to trade with us, regardless of whether an NZ MP attends a Falun Gong meeting or not.

Geektastic

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#1298925 6-May-2015 11:20

It's fairly normal although personally I would have 'suggested' that MP's avoid the controversy rather than appeared to order it to be so.

We should not forget that the inscrutable oriental mind of popular myth views things very differently to the average NZer and I suspect it is that which MFAT were trying to get across rather than anything else.

MikeB4

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#1298926 6-May-2015 11:22

frankv: Whilst I wouldn't be happy to see trade with China restricted, I do think that we shouldn't sell our principles for a few (billion) dollars.

And, bottom line, the reason China trades with us is because it's in their economic interest to do so. While it remains their best option, they will continue to trade with us, regardless of whether an NZ MP attends a Falun Gong meeting or not.

We need China way more than they need us. Their exports to here are like a rounding error, our exports to them contribute hugely to our standard of living.

old3eyes

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#1298942 6-May-2015 11:58

MikeB4:
frankv: Whilst I wouldn't be happy to see trade with China restricted, I do think that we shouldn't sell our principles for a few (billion) dollars.

And, bottom line, the reason China trades with us is because it's in their economic interest to do so. While it remains their best option, they will continue to trade with us, regardless of whether an NZ MP attends a Falun Gong meeting or not.

We need China way more than they need us. Their exports to here are like a rounding error, our exports to them contribute hugely to our standard of living.

Still don't think you should always kowtow to their repressive regime just to make a few bucks....

Regards,

Old3eyes

Fred99

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#1298983 6-May-2015 12:26

MikeB4: Of course NZ Government decisions are influenced by other Governments especially extremely important trading partners.

There's no such thing as "free" trade. There's no morality to it. Unfortunately there's also scant support from our so-called "friends".
NZ governments have shown the same caution by refusing to meet "officially" with the Dalai Lama. The USA awarded him with the US Congressional Gold Medal. (to go along with other awards including a Nobel Peace Prize).
If NZ gave him an official state welcome, would our US or European "friends" reward us with free access to valuable export markets which might be closed by the Chinese? Not likely - even sending our young men to die in their wars over the past 100 years makes no difference.
No solution offered here - there isn't one - just diminishing hope that what transparency remains won't be eroded as commercial interests claw their way further towards complete control of the media.

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