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# 173530 26-May-2015 20:10
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So my employer recently put forth a very broad 2 page document that they 'require' me to sign. As I'm already a full time employee, can they just compell me to sign further documents limiting me?

It's a rather broadly worded document with term like 'bring the school into disrepute' and 'misuse of school equipment', along with 'late to class or meetings' and some other rather wierd stuff.... which I feel is all adequately covered in 'professional conduct' but now comes with a straight-to-written-warning 'consequence' which is far harsher than my actual contract (verbal warning, goal setting, reexamination, then only written warning...?

I really doubt it's even been seen by a lawyer, but am hesitant to start paying mine $250/hr if there's no legal basis for me to be made to sign it anyway?

Anyway, anyone have experience or ideas on this please?

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  # 1312247 26-May-2015 20:22
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You don't have to sign, but this is an oppitunitity to include some extra clauses you may want, remember it's a contract where 2  (or more) agree to conditions


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  # 1312252 26-May-2015 20:30
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Just ignore it. If they try to 'require' you to sign it ask for them to write to you with the consequences of not signing it. Explain to them that you will not be renegotiating your contract.

This presents them with two options

1. Write to you with threats, setting themselves up for a personal grievance
2. They will go away

Either is ok for you.

They should be outlining things like this in a policy, which is then distributed to you, not in a letter which you agree to.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1312253 26-May-2015 20:32
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Check out CAB for free legal advise - http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/eb/ea/Pages/home.aspx

Also you can contact MBIE http://www.mbie.govt.nz/contact-us

Basically I'd be amazed if the can vary your contact without you agreeing (hence the signing request).

Maybe you want to sign? Maybe they want to compensate you for your changed conditions?
If so there is a starting point for some negotiations.

Good Luck

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  # 1312263 26-May-2015 20:41
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PhantomNVD: So my employer recently put forth a very broad 2 page document that they 'require' me to sign. As I'm already a full time employee, can they just compell me to sign further documents limiting me?

It's a rather broadly worded document with term like 'bring the school into disrepute' and 'misuse of school equipment', along with 'late to class or meetings' and some other rather wierd stuff.... which I feel is all adequately covered in 'professional conduct' but now comes with a straight-to-written-warning 'consequence' which is far harsher than my actual contract (verbal warning, goal setting, reexamination, then only written warning...?

I really doubt it's even been seen by a lawyer, but am hesitant to start paying mine $250/hr if there's no legal basis for me to be made to sign it anyway?

Anyway, anyone have experience or ideas on this please?


$250 an hour for an hour of time now could be seen as cheap if it saves you from making a mistake now. Also it gives you a better reason not to sign.

"My solicitor has advised me against signing your document" sounds better than "Just don't fancy signing it".







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  # 1312274 26-May-2015 20:45
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Thanks for the replies.

1) I don't want to sign it as there's no advantage to me and some serious loopholes they could use if they ever needed to downsize and just get rid of staff without due process (outlined in original contract)

2) all staff are being 'compelled' presented as "the board requires it" but it's just more rules and many are based on arbitrary judgements and are very loosely worded too (!)

3) don't think there's any agenda at work, just sloppy terminology and well meaning bumbling... But not keen on this at my expense thank you!

Thanks for the links to CAB and MBIE, as I think some clear legal advice should sort this ASAP, but not keen to waste $250 for a basic "they can't make you" that they'd be obliged to listen to.


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  # 1312277 26-May-2015 20:48
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Consider joining your workplace union.

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  # 1312280 26-May-2015 20:49
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Given this concerns your livelihood I suggest you get professional advice.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1312283 26-May-2015 20:51
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One factor is the attitude of the board to non signers. Might this distance you, and place you on some form of lesser team member? Not so much on a daily treatment basis, but on the basis of any future opportunities down the track that you may not be considered for.

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  # 1312287 26-May-2015 20:55
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OK, first up IANAL.

My understanding of things is that all contract matters must be negotiated and negotiations must be in good faith.

The only thing I can imagine you'd be required to sign is something they need to prove you've read and understand. House rules etc.

Ignoring it is a poor option. If you don't like it, you need to tell them you do not intend to sign it, and the reasons why. Be sure to include the fact that they haven't actually negotiated it as required.

If you want simple legal advice, I've fount the CAB to be pretty rubbish on legal matters (actually all matters), however the community law centre is a very good option if you have one locally.




Location: Dunedin

 


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  # 1312289 26-May-2015 20:59
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PhantomNVD: Thanks for the replies.

1) I don't want to sign it as there's no advantage to me and some serious loopholes they could use if they ever needed to downsize and just get rid of staff without due process (outlined in original contract)

2) all staff are being 'compelled' presented as "the board requires it" but it's just more rules and many are based on arbitrary judgements and are very loosely worded too (!)

3) don't think there's any agenda at work, just sloppy terminology and well meaning bumbling... But not keen on this at my expense thank you!

Thanks for the links to CAB and MBIE, as I think some clear legal advice should sort this ASAP, but not keen to waste $250 for a basic "they can't make you" that they'd be obliged to listen to.



Tell them to pay for your lawyer and you will do what the lawyer recommends.

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  # 1312297 26-May-2015 21:11
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$250/hr would be a cheap lawyer.

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  # 1312298 26-May-2015 21:12
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PhantomNVD: So my employer recently put forth a very broad 2 page document that they 'require' me to sign. As I'm already a full time employee, can they just compell me to sign further documents limiting me?

It's a rather broadly worded document with term like 'bring the school into disrepute' and 'misuse of school equipment', along with 'late to class or meetings' and some other rather wierd stuff.... which I feel is all adequately covered in 'professional conduct' but now comes with a straight-to-written-warning 'consequence' which is far harsher than my actual contract (verbal warning, goal setting, reexamination, then only written warning...?

I really doubt it's even been seen by a lawyer, but am hesitant to start paying mine $250/hr if there's no legal basis for me to be made to sign it anyway?

Anyway, anyone have experience or ideas on this please?


Just out of curiosity, private school, university, private institute, other... ?  

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  # 1312302 26-May-2015 21:19
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Rather than a lawyer, you might like to try getting advise from a HR consultant. Will be a lot cheaper, you will get good advise but this does not replace the advise from a lawyer.

John




I know enough to be dangerous




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  # 1312303 26-May-2015 21:33
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Small private school, and open to all suggestions here (including paying lawyer) but keen to resolve this in a low key way (future opportunities as mentioned by tdgeek above) and preferably low cost (as I'm not defending myself from a wrongdoing, just protecting myself from 'bullying'?)

Thanks again, one and all!

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  # 1312334 26-May-2015 22:20
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Pay for an employment lawyer.

It isn't a lot of money and you need to factor in the costs /stress etc.

You will need accurate information from someone who deals with such issues professionally rather than the opinion of a random poster on a tech forum.

You shouldn't come here asking for medical advice and a similar thing applies for legal advice.

A.

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