Are scarfies an endangered species in Dunedin.

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JaseNZ

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#192350 7-Mar-2016 17:36

Have seen a lot lately about what has been going on down in Dunedin re the students and the culture that seems to be escalating. I would be the first to admit I used to get on the p*ss a fair bit in my youth but never made it to uni so never experienced the culture.

Are people getting to the point of where they have just had enough of the antics and things are starting to go to far ??

I would say its only a small percentage that cause the problems based on the number of students that must be down there.

What plan of action do you think should be taken if any. ??

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#1507648 7-Mar-2016 17:49

What is going on in Dunedin these days are mild in comparison to my time there.

If you are referring to the balcony accident - there was no unruly behaviors etc. Everything was by the book except the structure was not strong enough for 30 people to be dancing there. They had the same concert at the same place last year.

Couch burning are not done by the students these days. It is now mostly done by those from out of town. If you get caught couch burning youll be kicked out of the university.

Nothing is "escalating". If anything the scarfies have gone mild. :-(

JaseNZ

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#1507688 7-Mar-2016 18:22

No I was more talking about the threats of rape and woman students being attacked etc.

The balcony accident as you said was a case of two many people on a balcony, would have thought they would have been more mature to realize a small balcony like that would have taken them all.

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Fred99

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#1507716 7-Mar-2016 19:59

Not sure about that balcony collapse - an investigation seems warranted.

360 deg footage was being shot, and it appears that there were about 16 on the balcony when it collapsed, and they weren't dancing. I think "social media" opinion about students may have got ahead of facts.

The reported max people it was rated for was 8 people. Under NZS3604, the minimum design for loading is for 2kPa, presumably the 8 people loading indicates the balcony was about 8m2 - which seems about right from the photos, which would equate to 1600kg even load (there's a large safety factor built in). It should probably not have collapsed. Perhaps there's a structural engineer on the forum who can confirm or comment.

Next thing is that afaik, that 2kPa load design is minimum. AIUI, NZS3604 is quite specific that this is a minimum, and that the load the balcony might potentially carry should be considered in design, and load bearing capacity should be increased accordingly. The balcony was small, the flat was clearly a student flat. I'd expect that minimum load capacity based on 2 kPa design could be exceeded, party or whatever, and as it was second floor then also dangerous, as in the event of fire or other emergency, it's a place where occupants of the flat may be likely to rush. Expecting that to only ever be 8 maximum seems very dumb to me.

gzt

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#1510216 9-Mar-2016 23:22

There was news footage of the crowd hoiding 'a' balcony aloft. I assume it was 'the' balcony?

It looked large in that shot. Does 3604 specify a max area per person/load ratio or something like that?

I would guess that thing was approx 4000x2000. My recollection is the ends of the joists were sticking out, which indicates it had broken away from the stringer. On balance it seems a lot of lever to be held up by joist hangers. I did not spot any hangers so I'm guessing they remained back on the stringer.

/total speculation based on quick impression of four second clip on news

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#1510226 9-Mar-2016 23:46

Photo from Google cache. That does not look like any construction method I have seen before. Tho I have not been around construction for a long time now.

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#1510251 10-Mar-2016 07:26

They can have wild parties all they want.

But please don't leave broken glass everywhere or destroy other people's things.

If they do they should be criminally liable.

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andrew027

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#1510275 10-Mar-2016 08:17

joker97: They can have wild parties all they want.

But please don't leave broken glass everywhere or destroy other people's things.

If they do they should be criminally liable.

This. I didn't got to Otago so can't say I'm familiar with the Scarfie culture first hand, but if you want to get off your face that's your own business. Vandalism, theft, arson, property damage, assault, sexual assault, etc. however are all crimes and are unacceptable behaviour, whether you're drunk or sober, a student or a worker, from Dunedin or out of town.

What's the solution? I don't know. More police presence, or a by-law that prohibits alcohol sales during O week? Expel students who are caught misbehaving, or suspend their loans?

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#1510278 10-Mar-2016 08:25

Overseas Football clubs get fined etc for bad crowd behaviour, make the University liable and I sure they will then take a more active role in stopping this.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Fred99

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#1510312 10-Mar-2016 09:25

The deck joists run through the exterior wall and attach to the floor joists on the building - they're not supported on hangers. Photos I've seen it looks like all the deck joists sheared right at the pivot point on the cantilevered deck. Yes - the 2kPa equates to 200kg static load per m2 - that's 3 average people per M2 (not jumping/dancing) and is the minimum required.

Sad that this accident is being used to condemn student behaviour. There is a requirement in NZS3604 for the designer to consider what the maximum loading may be, and increase design strength accordingly.

It seems pretty obvious to me that a small deck built off a living area of a student flat has potential for overloading, and that's not necessarily due to students being "naughty children". Any kind of emergency, or if there was some gathering in the flat and something "interesting" was going on outside, the occupants might be expected to rush to the deck. If that might overload it, then it should be built stronger.

I expect that the balcony was just under 3m elevation and build to minimum specs. If it had been just over 3m, then a structural engineer would have been needed for the design / inspection. An engineer might have hopefully thought about that potential for overloading and designed accordingly.

Dunedin council building inspectors have looked at it and commented that it seemed to have been built to code, but IMO that's a bit premature. There could have been an issue with quality of timber used, workmanship, or design fault not able to be determined from a quick look. They do need a proper investigation to find out exactly what happened, and if changes are needed to prevent it happening again, then that's going to have to be done.

gzt

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#1510428 10-Mar-2016 11:01

I know next to nothing about scarfie culture. However, my impression throughout New Zealand is that the quantity of alcohol used by everyday people has increased significantly since my time.

The price has fallen in real terms so it is predictable people will use more of it.

Looking back I recall that a dozen beers felt like a significant whack from my first wage and a 40oz spirit was close to the same price as a concert ticket for an international act.

Fred99

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#1510442 10-Mar-2016 11:26

gzt: I know next to nothing about scarfie culture. However, my impression throughout New Zealand is that the quantity of alcohol used by everyday people has increased significantly since my time.

The price has fallen in real terms so it is predictable people will use more of it.

Looking back I recall that a dozen beers felt like a significant whack from my first wage and a 40oz spirit was close to the same price as a concert ticket for an international act.

(source : WHO)

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jonb

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#1510483 10-Mar-2016 11:56

I think there is a growing public relations problem around it, the actual antics may not be any worse but with everything now being recorded and shared on social media, and then making it to the mainstream news, makes it a problem.

My daughter will be choosing a university in a couple of years, and for better or worse I have a negative view of Dunedin as a place to go to uni. I know it is unwarranted and wrong, and +99% are great kids, but that perception is there.

gzt

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#1510513 10-Mar-2016 12:39

Fred99:
gzt: I know next to nothing about scarfie culture. However, my impression throughout New Zealand is that the quantity of alcohol used by everyday people has increased significantly since my time.

The price has fallen in real terms so it is predictable people will use more of it.

Looking back I recall that a dozen beers felt like a significant whack from my first wage and a 40oz spirit was close to the same price as a concert ticket for an international act.

(source : WHO)

A purely per capita (total population) graph does not refelect some of the changes accurately. For instance the 18 drinking age is new in there adding another three years worth of customers. The capita did not change but the market vastly increased.

Facing a general decline in consumption, the shortfall can be partially closed up by selling more to a smaller set of customers. Ie; the sell more product to your existing best customers strategy.

Fred99

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#1510544 10-Mar-2016 13:24

gzt:
Fred99:

gzt: I know next to nothing about scarfie culture. However, my impression throughout New Zealand is that the quantity of alcohol used by everyday people has increased significantly since my time.

The price has fallen in real terms so it is predictable people will use more of it.

Looking back I recall that a dozen beers felt like a significant whack from my first wage and a 40oz spirit was close to the same price as a concert ticket for an international act.

(source : WHO)

A purely per capita (total population) graph does not refelect some of the changes accurately. For instance the 18 drinking age is new in there adding another three years worth of customers. The capita did not change but the market vastly increased.

Facing a general decline in consumption, the shortfall can be partially closed up by selling more to a smaller set of customers. Ie; the sell more product to your existing best customers strategy.

Lowering-legal-drinking-age-had-no-impact-study

An increase in grumpy old people on talkback radio, evangelising younger people on social media, these might be the things creating changed "impressions".

Having a "kid" who's now 22, and seeing what he and his wide group of friends do and how they behave with alcohol, it's not much different from when I was that age (late teens / early twenties). Some drink too much, some don't.

gzt

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#1510560 10-Mar-2016 13:47

I would have to look at that research to have an opinion. Personally I am not against the lower drinking age, but I do expect that amid the general decline that consumption by some demographics has increased. Imo there should be more education about alcohol use and it's effects.

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