Google Maps and The Council/LINZ

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LennonNZ

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Topic # 201281 11-Aug-2016 17:34

I live in Hobsonville Point and in Google maps are missing quite a bit of information from the area such as the road numbering/land allocation and even Speeds.

I contacted Google and they said the owner of the data can upload this data via their partner program.

https://maps.google.com/help/maps/mapcontent/basemap/index.html

So.. who owns the data for the Road/Land Area.. the Council Maybe.. so I contacted them .

The Auckland Council (GIS department) and they say "We are not the copyright holder of this data" !!!!!!^%&^&!!!!

So who next.

LINZ. (Maybe the Government department own it?)

They say....

Council supply LINZ the data and we make it available under CC-BY.

LINZ cannot supply the data to Google as LINZ cannot licence it to Google except under a CC-BY (which Google don't accept)

So the only way Google can get the Data Legally is from the Council(s) but the councils only licence is as CC-BY

http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/en/ratesbuildingproperty/propertyinformation/gis_maps/pages/opendata.aspx

All data, unless specifically stated, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 New Zealand License.

You must attribute the data back to its original creator and have this licence associated with the data at all times i.e. displayed on any maps, web sites, applications or printed material using this data.

(this licence is not useable by Google). The US States and some other countries supply Google all the proper maps under a proper licence...

Anyone know more about this?

LINZ now are going to discuss this with councils and see if they can be proactive about it but I don't think it will be faster.

I could use the Google Map maker and upload all the changes by hand but it would take years. All the information is there to make the Google maps 1000% better, just the licencing is wrong and the people who have the rights to do something about it won't do anything.

scottjpalmer

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Reply # 1610234 11-Aug-2016 17:41

Interesting, I am in a very similar situation at the moment with the same questions.

I'm looking forward to hearing some answers.

mdf

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Reply # 1610286 11-Aug-2016 19:55

For road numbering errors, there's an inbuilt report an incorrect address function. Bottom right hand corner in about 4 point font is "send feedback", then you can "report a data problem".

Otherwise you can see whichever data partner is responsible for the particular map after the copyright statement. It varies from map screen to map screen, but for me just typing in Hobnsonville Point it says that it is MapData Sciences/Services.

LennonNZ

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Reply # 1610384 11-Aug-2016 23:54

Try and do an entire suburb via http://mapmaker.google.com.. Hobsonville Point in Google Maps is all over the place wrong :-( It would take me a LONG time to do it all by hand when the council has 100% the right data to make it correct and all they have to do it sign up and give Google the data (via the right Licence)

Also MapData Sciences/Services do the real maps which are overlayed on the road data/property shapes . They do the actual images not the road data.

I added my address using mapmaker and it gets it right now but the reset of the suburb its all wrong :-( It has the entire area as 40Km/h

frankv

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Reply # 1610404 12-Aug-2016 07:06

I think Google maps gets their data from LINZ, so LINZ is the owner.

For new areas, you're probably better off with an Open Source mapping program such as NZOpenGPS (if you have a Garmin) or Waze. At least then you can submit updates yourself.

LennonNZ

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Reply # 1610417 12-Aug-2016 07:36

frankv:

I think Google maps gets their data from LINZ, so LINZ is the owner.

For new areas, you're probably better off with an Open Source mapping program such as NZOpenGPS (if you have a Garmin) or Waze. At least then you can submit updates yourself.

LINZ does not update Google with any data. LINZ only has the data under a CC licence from the councils.

mdf

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Reply # 1610418 12-Aug-2016 07:40

So you know why Google won't take CC-BY data? Is it CC-BY per se, or do they not like the NZ 3.0 licence and want an international 4.0 licence (which - allegedly - allows for greater flexibility in the attribution)?

frankv

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Reply # 1610429 12-Aug-2016 08:26

LennonNZ:

frankv:

I think Google maps gets their data from LINZ, so LINZ is the owner.

LINZ does not update Google with any data. LINZ only has the data under a CC licence from the councils.

I didn't say that LINZ updates Google. I said that I believe that Google gets data from LINZ. That would be under LINZ's CC license. It would be foolish of Google not to use this.

But LINZ only updates its data at intervals... NZ Roads: Road (Beta) data was last updated 13 April.

Landonline: Road Centre Line was updated 6 Aug. NZ Road Centerlines (Topo, 1:50k) was updated 14 Jun.

Depending on what Google uses (and I'm guessing it is NZ Road Centerlines), its maps could be months out of date.

Or Google may use openstreetmap.org -- that does show a few streets around Hobsonville, but I don't know how up-to-date it is, or whether it includes house numbers.

LennonNZ

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Reply # 1610500 12-Aug-2016 09:39

Google cannot use the road information under the CC Licence from LINZ as LINZ cannot licence it differently than CC .

Google do not pull it from LINZ...

I'm trying to get hold of someone @ Google to Address this issue at the moment.

I (as a third party, the same as LINZ) cannot give it to Google legally as the data (even if its 100% correct) as I can not licence it to Google.

Jaxson

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Reply # 1610513 12-Aug-2016 09:43

Interesting read. I'm in the same boat with Bing Maps, who potentially sauce their data from the same place?

LennonNZ

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Reply # 1610516 12-Aug-2016 09:57

Looking at the Maps on Bing Maps.. its missing a few roads but it gets the road numbering a little better.

The aerial views are well are maybe 10+ years old :-)

At least its not as bad as Apple maps which shows a Plane Runway outside my Front Door :-) (yes there was a run way there but they removed it legally about 3-4 years ago but It has not been in use a long time before that)

Jaxson

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Reply # 1610522 12-Aug-2016 10:11

I've gone with Bing for work purposes because their licensing can be dramatically cheaper than google maps.

Surprisingly though, for us and my required application, I think we're better served with Bing.

They offer this Birds Eye view taken from planes, that works exceptionally well for my requirement.

Off topic a bit, but check this site out...

frankv

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Reply # 1610664 12-Aug-2016 12:48

LennonNZ:

I (as a third party, the same as LINZ) cannot give it to Google legally as the data (even if its 100% correct) as I can not licence it to Google.

Are you saying that LINZ can't share the data because that would be in breach of their license from the source of the data (the local council). Surely, (a) LINZ would have covered that long ago, and (b) it's not Google's problem, so long as they adhere to the license that LINZ stipulates.

Google cannot use the road information under the CC Licence from LINZ as LINZ cannot licence it differently than CC .

The CC license statement referenced by LINZ says (in human-readable paraphrase):

You are free to:

Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.

Under the following terms:

Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made.

No additional restrictions — You may not legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.

So, according to this, LINZ says (a) you *can* share the data with Google (or anyone else), so long as it's also under the CC license, and acknowledged. And (b) Google can download and use and share the data, so long as they also do so under the CC license, and acknowledge the source.

The only difficulty I see is that Google insists on various restrictions on Google Maps content (notably, that it can't be shared).

LennonNZ

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Reply # 1610691 12-Aug-2016 13:35

frankv: Yes exactly.. the Licence that Google wants in incompatible with the licence the Council release it on (CC). The Wellington CC (I didn't look for any other Council's) release their property data the same way.

The Council would have to release the data to Google via different licencing. LINZ can't release the data to Google with a different license as the CC comes from the Council (not LINZ)

It may be 100% the same data (it probably would be) but the Licensing is incompatible.

The way the Partner program works is owners of the Copyright (The Council) have to upload it to Google. (Google don't pull it from the Council)

Aredwood

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Reply # 1611272 14-Aug-2016 02:15

Surely there must be a process? As how did Google get the original mapping data?

LennonNZ

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Reply # 1611334 14-Aug-2016 11:13

Aredwood:

Surely there must be a process? As how did Google get the original mapping data?

That is something I don't know yet.