Westworld discussion **FULL SPOILERS**

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Paul1977

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#205999 6-Dec-2016 09:40

Who has watched the full season of Westworld?

I just watched the season finale last night, and think overall it was a very good show. I'm interested to know what others thought, and discuss a couple of bits that didn't entirely make sense to me.

I intend this thread to be safe to discuss any plots points, so if you haven't watched all 10 episodes DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER.

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#1683145 6-Dec-2016 10:15

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching this season.

I hope that the theory that it was a host Ford that was shot also turns out to be true in season 2 - time and again Ford has proven to be a few steps ahead of everyone else - Board members, guests and hosts - so there's a plausible plot point. I was surprised to discover that he has been scripting Maeve's arc all season long.

Apparently, a five season series has been outlined. At 2-3 years of development its going to be a long wait to the end. But as this season has shown, its not about what happens in the end (mostly), its how we get there.

I've also been watching Humans season 2 along with this series and have enjoyed that side of robots in the real world story as well.

Paul1977

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#1683160 6-Dec-2016 10:28

pgs2050:

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching this season.

I hope that the theory that it was a host Ford that was shot also turns out to be true in season 2 - time and again Ford has proven to be a few steps ahead of everyone else - Board members, guests and hosts - so there's a plausible plot point. I was surprised to discover that he has been scripting Maeve's arc all season long.

Apparently, a five season series has been outlined. At 2-3 years of development its going to be a long wait to the end. But as this season has shown, its not about what happens in the end (mostly), its how we get there.

I've also been watching Humans season 2 along with this series and have enjoyed that side of robots in the real world story as well.

While it it is a shame to lose Hopkins, I think it would far lessen the impact of what Ford was doing if it wasn't him at the end.

The code actually said it was Arnold scripting Maeve, so it wasn't necessarily Ford (although it seems unlikely to have been Arnold).

The bit that had me a little confused (and maybe I am remembering wrong) was when they said that William convinced his company to buy Westworld, and that was the only thing that saved it after the Delores massacre. But when William first visited the park it was already open and well established, which would have to be years after the massacre?

I didn't really understand Felix's motivation. I can understand him not wanting to kill Maeve, but she was clearly dangerous and would stop at nothing to escape.

KrazyKid

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#1683750 7-Dec-2016 10:49

Paul1977:

The code actually said it was Arnold scripting Maeve, so it wasn't necessarily Ford (although it seems unlikely to have been Arnold).

The bit that had me a little confused (and maybe I am remembering wrong) was when they said that William convinced his company to buy Westworld, and that was the only thing that saved it after the Delores massacre. But when William first visited the park it was already open and well established, which would have to be years after the massacre?

I didn't really understand Felix's motivation. I can understand him not wanting to kill Maeve, but she was clearly dangerous and would stop at nothing to escape.

I also really enjoyed this series. Just watched ep 10 last night. The playing with memories and time was very clever. I groaned when the show did it's bit of "I told you so" flashback and showed Delores standing at the dust covered village asking when was this. That was just gloating :)

Will be interesting to see what Maeve is programmed to do - she is obviously blind to the fact that she is still following her programming. I think Felix is also a robot following his programming, why else would he help so much?
(but that scene where he discover Bernard was a robot and did robot arms made be laugh out loud.)

reven

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#1683772 7-Dec-2016 11:15

was ford really ford who got shot? who was ford printing? I reckon he printed a ford host and that was who was shot.

The man in black being William was great, so obvious if you just thought about it. But yeah, I try to avoid spoilers etc, great show.

Dingbatt

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#1683786 7-Dec-2016 11:40

The show was universally panned by the critics in America in its first few weeks. How wrong they were. I really enjoyed the show as did my teenage sons (although the T&A may have contributed to their interest). The ending was extremely clever in that the show hadn't definitely been picked up for a second season at that stage. So we could have been left to imagine where the story was going, but now it is to continue, we get to see where the writers will go instead.

I hope it doesn't go the way Lost did, by starting strongly and then totally losing it after two seasons.

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Dairyxox

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#1683803 7-Dec-2016 12:07

Dingbatt: The show was universally panned by the critics in America in its first few weeks. How wrong they were. I really enjoyed the show as did my teenage sons (although the T&A may have contributed to their interest). The ending was extremely clever in that the show hadn't definitely been picked up for a second season at that stage. So we could have been left to imagine where the story was going, but now it is to continue, we get to see where the writers will go instead.

I hope it doesn't go the way Lost did, by starting strongly and then totally losing it after two seasons.

To be fair the first half of the first series was pretty boring. It only really got interesting in the last half. I almost didn't persevere.

Have to admit, I didn't pick William as being the man in black. Maybe because he was so nice to Deloris when young, but so mean to her at the end.

petes117

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#1683822 7-Dec-2016 12:27

Paul1977:

The bit that had me a little confused (and maybe I am remembering wrong) was when they said that William convinced his company to buy Westworld, and that was the only thing that saved it after the Delores massacre. But when William first visited the park it was already open and well established, which would have to be years after the massacre?

I didn't really understand Felix's motivation. I can understand him not wanting to kill Maeve, but she was clearly dangerous and would stop at nothing to escape.

It is confusing sometimes, but I think William's company buying Westworld happened before he went to the park, but then after his events in the first season he probably blamed his evil deeds on Logan (after sending him off on a naked horse ride), and was able to more easily climb the ranks of the company so that now it is actually him with the majority share.

Also I believe that everyone apart from the board members of Delos are hosts, so all the guards, Q&A, technicians are all robots, and have been scripted by Bernard (who of course was scripted by Ford as part of his "new narrative", or more like a meta-narrative). That would explain Felix's motivation, his lack of empathy for his coworkers being killed, and everyone else's general stupidity in letting Maeve escape. There may be a few exceptions, like the story-writer guy (can't remember his name), Elsie (who is trapped in Westworld but still alive I think), and maybe Stubbs (since he seemed halfway competent).

Plus, Felix used the same magic healing tool on Sylvester to heal his throat wound, the same way he brought back Bernard.

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Paul1977

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#1683837 7-Dec-2016 12:58

petes117:

It is confusing sometimes, but I think William's company buying Westworld happened before he went to the park, but then after his events in the first season he probably blamed his evil deeds on Logan (after sending him off on a naked horse ride), and was able to more easily climb the ranks of the company so that now it is actually him with the majority share.

Also I believe that everyone apart from the board members of Delos are hosts, so all the guards, Q&A, technicians are all robots, and have been scripted by Bernard (who of course was scripted by Ford as part of his "new narrative", or more like a meta-narrative). That would explain Felix's motivation, his lack of empathy for his coworkers being killed, and everyone else's general stupidity in letting Maeve escape. There may be a few exceptions, like the story-writer guy (can't remember his name), Elsie (who is trapped in Westworld but still alive I think), and maybe Stubbs (since he seemed halfway competent).

Plus, Felix used the same magic healing tool on Sylvester to heal his throat wound, the same way he brought back Bernard.

When Logan and William first entered Westworld Logan said part of the reason the were there was to help decide whether their company should buy it (if I remember correctly).

I think revealing too many more people as hosts would be taking it too far. And then (in my opinion) it wouldn't really be robots vs humans, it would be robots vs robots. As well as being funny I think the bit with Felix wondering if he was a robot and then being quickly told he wasn't was the writers saying "we aren't going to be using that trick all the time".

Old William had lamented that physically the hosts were so much like humans now, so that could explain using the same healing tool.

And did Maeve finally break away from her programming and become truly conscious by deciding to go back for her "daughter"?

petes117

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#1683918 7-Dec-2016 13:46

Paul1977:

When Logan and William first entered Westworld Logan said part of the reason the were there was to help decide whether their company should buy it (if I remember correctly).

I think revealing too many more people as hosts would be taking it too far. And then (in my opinion) it wouldn't really be robots vs humans, it would be robots vs robots. As well as being funny I think the bit with Felix wondering if he was a robot and then being quickly told he wasn't was the writers saying "we aren't going to be using that trick all the time".

Old William had lamented that physically the hosts were so much like humans now, so that could explain using the same healing tool.

And did Maeve finally break away from her programming and become truly conscious by deciding to go back for her "daughter"?

I think you're right about them deciding to buy it at the time... but I'm not sure if anyone during young William's timeframe mentioned the "event of 30 years ago", so maybe it happened only a few weeks or months before (hence the sloppy coverup of the town buried in sand?). Maybe...

I actually think it would be kinda cool to reveal most (but not all) people as hosts, then it would turn into a "how do you prove you're really human" scenario, (apart from physically gutting them to reveal the metal chassis) a bit like John Carpenter's 'The Thing'.

The ambiguous-ness of that ending with Maeve is probably intentional and I think quite well done: She now (probably) hears her own voice telling her what to do and decides to get off the train (like Delores deciding to kill Ford), so is that part of their programming or something they achieved on their own? Like Ford said, consciousness comes not from a higher power guiding you, but within your own mind. Heady stuff!

PaulBags

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#1684008 7-Dec-2016 15:22

I think William, however bitter he'd become, really did love Delores and really did want her to become sentient again - even if it meant him getting killed. I forget the exact wording but when he says "thanks for breaking me of my delusions again" I think he's just hurt - messed up and abusive as that is.

Didn't Arnold give them his own voice as an internal monologue to try to get them to their own internal monologue & consciousness? That's possibly what it means when she was scripted by Arnold, and rather than being controlled could mean she was on her way to consciousness.

Annnd, did William know about Delores & Arnold? Did he know she'd been merged with Wyatt? Is _that_ what he meant all along asking hosts to take him to wyatt? Was he intentionally stirring their memories (reveries[sp?]) to trigger them to consciousness or was his contribution to the process a 'happy' accident?

Will watch the original Westworld & Futureworld movies, probably in the next week or two - I hope it doesn't spoil season 2+ but I'm not waiting 12~18 months.

[Edit]The hosts that had told William the maze wasn't meant for him - scripted, or sentient and hiding in their narratives?

Paul1977

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#1684044 7-Dec-2016 16:12

petes117:

I actually think it would be kinda cool to reveal most (but not all) people as hosts, then it would turn into a "how do you prove you're really human" scenario, (apart from physically gutting them to reveal the metal chassis) a bit like John Carpenter's 'The Thing'.

But the latest generation hosts don't have metal chassis like the earlier ones, so I don't think we know how easily they could be distinguished from humans. They are more like the Cylons from the remake of Battlestar Galactica or the Replicants in Blade Runner.

Paul1977

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#1684047 7-Dec-2016 16:14

PaulBags:

Will watch the original Westworld & Futureworld movies, probably in the next week or two - I hope it doesn't spoil season 2+ but I'm not waiting 12~18 months.

I haven't seen them, but I doubt they share much in common with the series beyond the basic premise of a western based theme park with robots.

pgs2050

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#1684056 7-Dec-2016 16:34

The original movie is told from the guests' point of view with the the rogue robot as the obvious bad guy.

petes117

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#1684345 7-Dec-2016 22:35

Paul1977:

petes117:

I actually think it would be kinda cool to reveal most (but not all) people as hosts, then it would turn into a "how do you prove you're really human" scenario, (apart from physically gutting them to reveal the metal chassis) a bit like John Carpenter's 'The Thing'.

But the latest generation hosts don't have metal chassis like the earlier ones, so I don't think we know how easily they could be distinguished from humans. They are more like the Cylons from the remake of Battlestar Galactica or the Replicants in Blade Runner.

Sounds even better in that case :D

By the way there was a post-credits scene on the finale, just in case you guys didn't realise at first (I didn't!)

PaulBags

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#1684351 7-Dec-2016 22:54

pgs2050:
The original movie is told from the guests' point of view with the the rogue robot as the obvious bad guy.

These are not the spoilers I was looking for >:(.

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