US citizens can buy grenade launchers

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kingdragonfly

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#208744 26-Feb-2017 09:12

I was reading a Marvel comic book. One of the heroes mentioned he shot "flechettes". A Wikipedia search later, I discovered these were basically large darts.

Which led me to another Wikipedia page about the horrible "beehive round." This was a cannon round used in Vietnam that had 8,000 (!!!) flechettes.

Which led me to a YouTube page, where I discovered not only can US citizen buy 40mm grenade launchers, but someone was making a grenade ground that fired 10 x 22mm rounds at once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWMGwMGRPxU

When the US founding fathers were alive, they included a provision for "a well regulated militia." A musket rifle at best could fire a shot once every 15 seconds.

A modern AR-15 shoots 10 rounds per second

How did this provision to let small militias fighting foreign invaders become letting US civilians buy anti-personnel weapons?

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#1726376 26-Feb-2017 09:36

Let me be the first to say: Make America Grenade Again!

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Dratsab

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#1726461 26-Feb-2017 12:33

AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon, not fully automatic, so you'd have to have an incredibly fast finger to operate the trigger at that rate, even if you were correctly using trigger reset. Perhaps you're getting mixed up with the M16, a weapon capable of fully automatic fire, which the AR-15 is based off?

EDIT: M16 is a military weapon which later became known as an M4 carbine. AR-15 (Armalite Rifle) is the civilian variant.

Talkiet

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#1726480 26-Feb-2017 13:11

Well done for at least noticing the 2nd amendment doesn't actually say "GUNS4ALL YEEHAW BANG BANG GOD SAID I CAN SHOOT EVERYTHING"... But the full text is...

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

The bolded section is ignored by almost everyone and completely changes the context. Unfortunately it seems the common sense left the building a long time ago (Well before Trump slammed the door shut on it)...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Linuxluver

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#1726484 26-Feb-2017 13:18

kingdragonfly: I was reading a Marvel comic book. One of the heroes mentioned he shot "flechettes". A Wikipedia search later, I discovered these were basically large darts.

Which led me to another Wikipedia page about the horrible "beehive round." This was a cannon round used in Vietnam that had 8,000 (!!!) flechettes.

Which led me to a YouTube page, where I discovered not only can US citizen buy 40mm grenade launchers, but someone was making a grenade ground that fired 10 x 22mm rounds at once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWMGwMGRPxU

When the US founding fathers were alive, they included a provision for "a well regulated militia." A musket rifle at best could fire a shot once every 15 seconds.

A modern AR-15 shoots 10 rounds per second

How did this provision to let small militias fighting foreign invaders become letting US civilians buy anti-personnel weapons?

Gun nuts are just that.....nuts. over 30,000 dead every year due to guns in the US and they do nothing....while some jerk failed to blow up a shoe bomb 12 years ago on a plane so now millions of people have to take their shoes off to board planes to / in the US.

It's insane....and there's also no arguing with them. They are just crazy.

They have no money for health care......but Trump wants to spend billions on a wall and lots more nukes.

It's the end of the US. Too stupid to survive.

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Linuxluver

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#1726485 26-Feb-2017 13:20

Talkiet:

Well done for at least noticing the 2nd amendment doesn't actually say "GUNS4ALL YEEHAW BANG BANG GOD SAID I CAN SHOOT EVERYTHING"... But the full text is...

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

The bolded section is ignored by almost everyone and completely changes the context. Unfortunately it seems the common sense left the building a long time ago (Well before Trump slammed the door shut on it)...

Cheers - N

They didn't ignore it until enough supreme court justices had been appointed who were willing to ignore it. One of the great legal failures in American history.

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kingdragonfly

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#1726508 26-Feb-2017 13:51

For what it's worth, private US citizens can buy fully automatic weapons, like the ArmaLite AR-15.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/17/1171047/-There-are-240-000-fully-automatic-guns-in-the-US-and-only-2-deaths-in-80-years

I remember going to an Alabama guns show. They had surplus Chinese SKS assault rifles for sale. At the same table, for $10 they also sold kits to convert it from semi-automatic to fully automatic.

Both were legal, but of course incredibly illegal to combine, because it produced a fully automatic assault rifle.

http://www.2acheck.com/tag/sks-full-auto-conversion/

During the show, two people managed to accidently fire their guns in the auditorium.

It was also interesting that people were selling guns out of the trunks of their cars. No paperwork needed, since it was a private individual to private individual sale.

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Geektastic

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#1726564 26-Feb-2017 15:13

For what it's worth, so can NZ citizens with the correct licence.

Dratsab

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#1726583 26-Feb-2017 16:24

kingdragonfly: For what it's worth, private US citizens can buy fully automatic weapons, like the ArmaLite AR-15.

Again, semi-automatic. The original AR-15 was fully automatic during development of a weapon suitable for soldiers in Vietnam but were available to military only. Since 1964 it has been manufactured as a 'civilian' weapon in semi-automatic configuration only. [/digression]

What may be of more interest is some of the new ammo that's being developed with maximum damage in mind. When I've got a bit more time, later this afternoon, I'll post a video of it.

Dratsab

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#1726584 26-Feb-2017 16:24

kingdragonfly: For what it's worth, private US citizens can buy fully automatic weapons, like the ArmaLite AR-15.

Again, semi-automatic. The original AR-15 was fully automatic during development of a weapon suitable for soldiers in Vietnam but we available to military only. Since 1964 it has been manufactured as a 'civilian' weapon in semi-automatic configuration only. [/digression]

What may be of more interest is some of the new ammo that's being developed with maximum damage in mind. When I've got a bit more time, later this afternoon, I'll post a video of it.

Dratsab

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#1726622 26-Feb-2017 18:21

Here we go, the Radically Invasive Projectile (RIP)...

Taubin

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#1726641 26-Feb-2017 19:32

For what it's worth, and I expect to fully be bashed for this, however, grenade launchers are a Title II weapon, meaning you need a very strict license in order to get them. You can't just walk into a gun store (or any other store) and pick them up and walk away with them without the proper license.

Also, as an American, I'm sick of everyone here thinking the US is like they see in the movies, with people being shot in every street corner, and everyone carrying a scattergat everywhere they go. It simply isn't like that at all. Most states, you need a license to carry a firearm. All states you need to be 18 (and in a lot of them 21) to own a hand gun. Large magazines are restricted as well. And, in order to get a fully automatic weapon, you need an even more restrictive license than you do for a grenade launcher.

I've worked for an FFL (Federal Firearms Licensee) and sold guns at gun shows for about five years. What's been described at the show in Alabama would have had the entire place shut down and banned so fast that their heads would have spun. I have been at a show with a ND (Negligent discharge, luckily no one was hurt), and the entire place was shut down immediately, and the dealer was banned for life. People selling out of their cars at a gun show is also illegal and would have been reported and they would have been arrested. It's not worth it to any dealer at any show to have their livelihood put in jeopardy by not reporting that (it's illegal to know about it and not report it by the way). So either you didn't see what you thought you saw, or it's being made up (or more likely, you've read about it on some news agency and are repeating it here).

Selling any item that makes a firearm "automatic" is also illegal without a Class 3 permit, and again, would have been shut down and they would have faced VERY serious charges for even having it on their table without proper permits. The feds are constantly at gun shows, and constantly try to trap people, so again, it didn't happen. If someone did try to sell you something that made it "automatic" was doing something highly illegal.

In order to get a Class 3 permit (to own automatic and "any other weapon" firearms), you have go to through extensive background checks, so please, stop making it sound like you just stroll into your local shop and grab a fully automatic weapon, that simply does not happen at all. In fact, you need a permit to get a silencer, unlike here, because they are also a NFA (that's National Firearms Act you should look it up) accessory. The current wait time to get the TWO HUNDERED DOLLAR TAX STAMP to be able to own a silencer, (and that does not include the price of the silencer itself) is around 8-12 months current with the ATF.

To be clear, I don't think everyone in America should own a firearm, however, I also don't think America needs more laws to make it more difficult for regular people to own them. Iv'e owned many throughout my life before moving here, as have most of my friends and family. I'm not a "gun nut". I've never carried where it's illegal to carry, I've never pointed any of my guns at anyone (even in the single case where it would have been justified while I was carrying) and frankly, neither have any of my friends. I've never seen someone shot, and I've never seen anyone pull a gun on anyone else, barring one time. Most people that own guns in the US are completely responsible gun owners. Just like most people that own them here. But that of course, doesn't make for exciting news stories or agendas.

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Talkiet

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#1726653 26-Feb-2017 20:03

According to the most conservative figures I could find, US Firearm related death rate per 100k popn is ten times higher than NZ. Sure, it's not like people are dying on every corner, every day, but it's AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE worse than here, and many other similarly developed countries.

There are countries with worse rates though... Honduras, Swaziland, Colombia, Brazil, Panama and a few others.

Adherence to the current rules doesn't make the whole situation deplorably sad - but the stats don't lie, the US is the most dangerous place for gun related deaths in the developed world. Even if you want to argue the term 'developed' it's still among the very worst...

As far as I can tell, the most common justification for people having a handgun is because others have handguns. We did that with nuclear weapons once (and might do again!)...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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#1726678 26-Feb-2017 21:33

Taubin:
snip...

Thanks for providing the clarity and sense. I didn't think the OP sounded right but have no knowledge around the licencing regimes in the US so didn't really want to comment other than on the AR-15 issue.

elpenguino

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#1726679 26-Feb-2017 21:40

kingdragonfly: For what it's worth, private US citizens can buy fully automatic weapons, like the ArmaLite AR-15.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/17/1171047/-There-are-240-000-fully-automatic-guns-in-the-US-and-only-2-deaths-in-80-years

I remember going to an Alabama guns show. They had surplus Chinese SKS assault rifles for sale.

Yeah but you can get those here. I had one 20 years ago - brand new for $300. I see they are still available but now you cant have the handy folding bayonet to play with.

South Africans are obsessed with 'home defence' also, but it doesn't always end well.

The whole US gun thing does seem mad from the outside but then, they seem to be trained that the constitution is without fault.

There was a good article on BBC about the Japanese police, who are armed. The article quoted one recent year in which the police fired 6 shots. In Japan. In the whole year.

Where would you rather live?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#1726681 26-Feb-2017 21:46

Taubin: To be clear, I don't think everyone in America should own a firearm, however, I also don't think America needs more laws to make it more difficult for regular people to own them. Iv'e owned many throughout my life before moving here, as have most of my friends and family. I'm not a "gun nut". I've never carried where it's illegal to carry, I've never pointed any of my guns at anyone (even in the single case where it would have been justified while I was carrying) and frankly, neither have any of my friends. I've never seen someone shot, and I've never seen anyone pull a gun on anyone else, barring one time. Most people that own guns in the US are completely responsible gun owners. Just like most people that own them here. But that of course, doesn't make for exciting news stories or agendas.

And this is where I disagree with you. Do you mean regular people who lock away their guns in a safe / secure lock box ensuring that the gun isn't loaded and the ammunition is stored securely in a different location to the gun itself? Or those that leave a loaded weapon in their handbag, bed side table or elsewhere around their house / car within easy reach of a child? I've struggled to find the research where the mere ownership of a gun significantly increased your chance for being shot (normally with your own gun)

The rates of homicides from toddlers speaks volumes about the insanely casual attitude of guns in the US.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed

If you think the Sandy Hook was a tragic accident and your thoughts and prayers are with the families. You've really missed the whole point that it's just a matter of time before it happens again. If the mass murder of little children wasn't enough to change general opinions and laws then nothing will be.

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