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Topic # 230691 8-Mar-2018 19:54
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102103490/schneider-electric-makes-50-people-redundant-closing-christchurch-factory

 

This isn't a dig at Schneider or PDL. Its reality. Some things are better made elsewhere. 


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  Reply # 1971391 8-Mar-2018 20:12
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I remember PDL as a brand name, but do not really identify with Schneider. The only thing that comes to mind is that like many international companies that take over NZ based businesses, they have a very long term, but focused business plan that involves longer term relocation to a distribution/cost point that does not involve NZ.

 

Shut down a village to protect a town's longer term interests? It's a global market and sadly NZ is but a mere village in the big scheme of things.


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  Reply # 1971407 8-Mar-2018 20:34
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This isn't a dig at Schneider or PDL. Its reality. Some Most things are better cheaper made elsewhere.

 

FTFY. 




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  Reply # 1971416 8-Mar-2018 20:55
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Fred99:

 

This isn't a dig at Schneider or PDL. Its reality. Some Most things are better cheaper made elsewhere.

 

FTFY. 

 

 

Good call.

 

As we see from some topics, many want the cheapest. Then they complain as its not the best. Todays world. 

 

Take China. Source of cheap stuff, aka The Warehouse and Bunnings and others. Its cheap and nasty. But it isnt. Do Chinese buy cheap and nasty? No. China actually makes good stuff, its the importers who ask for cheap. Cheaper than cheap.

 

My brother in law told me once, buy American, they make stuff like a brick sh#thouse, i.e. they over build and over spec. But its too costly now, for Americans and for us. Go to Walmart, its Chinese and Honduran.

 

But, as per the topic its Economics 101. Manufacturing is quite mobile, you can make it here, or there. Most people wont buy $3000 Netherlands dishwasher, they will buy a lower price one. 

 

As to better, if its 40% cheaper and 20% less quality its a good buy. Many cannot afford better quality, and in the case of a business fabricating electronics around plastic plugs, who really cares if it complies with NZSS?  Its a bit like Trump, if he wants them to buy American, the populous cannot afford it. The ideal in economics s those that can produce better, should, so that each country makes what they are best at making, whether that is toasters, wheat, or websites


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  Reply # 1971421 8-Mar-2018 21:04
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I guess it’s a trend where a family or entreprenerial business has been built up in NZ.

Eventually they want to sell up as the founder ages and, if the brand’s attractive, overseas money will get it and the manufacturing will go overseas.

bmt

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  Reply # 1971424 8-Mar-2018 21:16
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Mmm not sure about that, got a Carrier (American) air con unit at work, only about a year old now but it's an absolute POS compared to any other modern heat pump I've experienced, including the Fujitsu I have at home. The remote has like 6 buttons...


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  Reply # 1971429 8-Mar-2018 21:20
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tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

This isn't a dig at Schneider or PDL. Its reality. Some Most things are better cheaper made elsewhere.

 

FTFY. 

 

 

Good call.

 

As we see from some topics, many want the cheapest. Then they complain as its not the best. Todays world. 

 

Take China. Source of cheap stuff, aka The Warehouse and Bunnings and others. Its cheap and nasty. But it isnt. Do Chinese buy cheap and nasty? No. China actually makes good stuff, its the importers who ask for cheap. Cheaper than cheap.

 

My brother in law told me once, buy American, they make stuff like a brick sh#thouse, i.e. they over build and over spec. But its too costly now, for Americans and for us. Go to Walmart, its Chinese and Honduran.

 

But, as per the topic its Economics 101. Manufacturing is quite mobile, you can make it here, or there. Most people wont buy $3000 Netherlands dishwasher, they will buy a lower price one. 

 

As to better, if its 40% cheaper and 20% less quality its a good buy. Many cannot afford better quality, and in the case of a business fabricating electronics around plastic plugs, who really cares if it complies with NZSS?  Its a bit like Trump, if he wants them to buy American, the populous cannot afford it. The ideal in economics s those that can produce better, should, so that each country makes what they are best at making, whether that is toasters, wheat, or websites

 

 

 

 

Americans have a strange view though. I have seen American knife companies outsource production (commonly to Taiwan) of folding knives which sell for US$500 because if they built in the USA it would cost $600 and no one would buy it. To me, that isn't enough difference to warrant that.

 

Also, Burris, who make rifle scopes, decided they needed a cheaper option, so they actually replicated their US factory on a site in the Philippines - same machines, same materials just cheaper labour. The finished scopes are shipped back to the US for testing and QC then sold with exactly the same 'forever warranty' the US built ones get.

 

We all know the Chinese CAN build very good stuff - look no further than Apple. It really just comes down to having good oversight in China from the company. I have a Taiwan made Spyderco and I challenge anyone to find a single manufacturing defect in it - it is so well made, with such good fit and finish, it rivals custom work I have seen. 

 

In simple terms, NZ has benefitted from the tyranny of distance in the sense that for many things, it was cheaper and quicker to make them here. Now, with modern distribution systems, globalised networks, electronic payments etc etc it won't necessarily be possible to continue expecting customers to pay a premium just to subsidise 50 jobs.

 

The big problem I foresee will come with dairy. NZ is efficient etc, but it's not rocket science and nor is it unique. If the Chinese etc ramp up production (think of all the land they have...) then we'll have a real problem. I suggested to a farmer I know that a profitable  way out of that was  to turn NZ into a 100% organic producer - the only one in the world - and he thought I was quite mad, even when I pointed out that the demand for organic dairy and other produce is increasing all the time and premiums are significant.

 

Well, I might be mad - but at least, unlike him, I wasn't sticking my fingers in my ears and going lalalalalalalalala!






gzt

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  Reply # 1971453 8-Mar-2018 22:32
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The wall sockets they made in the mid 70's last basically forever*. Design classics. Who needs quick break when it quickly breaks? Give me a single action sharp cam anyday. I do wonder if there is a way to make that old design compliant with a fancy suppressor addition but that's just adding unnecessary fire risk really.

As for closing the factory some of these multinational companies really lack imagination. You would think they could come up with something.

*Edit: ok not really but kind of.

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  Reply # 1971486 9-Mar-2018 00:21
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gzt: The wall sockets they made in the mid 70's last basically forever*. Design classics. Who needs quick break when it quickly breaks? Give me a single action sharp cam anyday. I do wonder if there is a way to make that old design compliant with a fancy suppressor addition but that's just adding unnecessary fire risk really.

As for closing the factory some of these multinational companies really lack imagination. You would think they could come up with something.

*Edit: ok not really but kind of.

 

 

 

I have some PDLs made in the 80's and they are still working as well today as back then. They also still look really modern because they are black, and really solid.


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  Reply # 1971487 9-Mar-2018 00:29
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Geektastic:

 

We all know the Chinese CAN build very good stuff - look no further than Apple.

 

 

Only when the customer watches like a hawk closely monitoring every step of the production process. They will be constantly fighting to prevent the shortcuts they will take if they think for one second they might get away with it.




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  Reply # 1971494 9-Mar-2018 07:12
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cadman:

 

Geektastic:

 

We all know the Chinese CAN build very good stuff - look no further than Apple.

 

 

Only when the customer watches like a hawk closely monitoring every step of the production process. They will be constantly fighting to prevent the shortcuts they will take if they think for one second they might get away with it.

 

 

As in the Monday or Friday car assembly when it was done here? Id challenge that a kiwi making something will take less care than as asian, its a culture thing, and an overall observation that wont apply to every kiwi or every asian or any particular human

 

The bottom line is that due to our first world lifestyle and wages, its cheaper to make many things elsewhere. An $8 Cascade jug has a market as does a $109 jug. You can probably make the $109 jug in Asia or Brazil a lot cheaper as well, and quality control it. More sales.




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  Reply # 1971496 9-Mar-2018 07:15
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We got drapes at the old house, quoted $5000 here. We got them made in China, landed at $1600. The quality, thickness, design, tassels, tie back ropes between them were night and day


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  Reply # 1971619 9-Mar-2018 10:34
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tdgeek:

 

cadman:

 

Geektastic:

 

We all know the Chinese CAN build very good stuff - look no further than Apple.

 

 

Only when the customer watches like a hawk closely monitoring every step of the production process. They will be constantly fighting to prevent the shortcuts they will take if they think for one second they might get away with it.

 

 

As in the Monday or Friday car assembly when it was done here? Id challenge that a kiwi making something will take less care than as asian, its a culture thing, and an overall observation that wont apply to every kiwi or every asian or any particular human

 

 

No. That was largely down to people not being available to do the job they're trained for (taking Friday sickies for a long weekend or Mondayitis) so a stand-in had to be found without a full understanding of the role or mere laziness.

 

Anyway, wrong flavour of 'Asian' for 'taking more care'. If you're talking about the Japanese culture, sure. Chinese culture, meh, not so much. As I said, you can try to knuckle down on quality control but as many manufacturers have found, to their own detriment, it's not as easy as simply making rules and expecting or even lightly monitoring compliance. You have to have total dominance over the entire manufacturing process or there will be shortcuts made. As sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.

 

There's a book I stumbled across called "Poorly Made in China", which I read a few years ago that was pretty much a mirror perfect example of what clients of mine experienced whilst trying to manufacture to a high standard in China about a decade ago. They thought they'd save themselves freight costs and lead-time for jobs we were doing there and that along with the savings in labour cost it would mean they could afford to iron out any quality issues. Boy, were they wrong. These are not small companies either. The 'next level evil genius' shortcuts and completely unrepentant attitude when caught red handed was truly a sight to behold.




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  Reply # 1971627 9-Mar-2018 10:41
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cadman:

 

tdgeek:

 

cadman:

 

Geektastic:

 

We all know the Chinese CAN build very good stuff - look no further than Apple.

 

 

Only when the customer watches like a hawk closely monitoring every step of the production process. They will be constantly fighting to prevent the shortcuts they will take if they think for one second they might get away with it.

 

 

As in the Monday or Friday car assembly when it was done here? Id challenge that a kiwi making something will take less care than as asian, its a culture thing, and an overall observation that wont apply to every kiwi or every asian or any particular human

 

 

No. That was largely down to people not being available to do the job they're trained for (taking Friday sickies for a long weekend or Mondayitis) so a stand-in had to be found without a full understanding of the role or mere laziness.

 

Anyway, wrong flavour of 'Asian' for 'taking more care'. If you're talking about the Japanese culture, sure. Chinese culture, meh, not so much. As I said, you can try to knuckle down on quality control but as many manufacturers have found, to their own detriment, it's not as easy as simply making rules and expecting or even lightly monitoring compliance. You have to have total dominance over the entire manufacturing process or there will be shortcuts made. As sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.

 

There's a book I stumbled across called "Poorly Made in China", which I read a few years ago that was pretty much a mirror perfect example of what clients of mine experienced whilst trying to manufacture to a high standard in China about a decade ago. They thought they'd save themselves freight costs and lead-time for jobs we were doing there and that along with the savings in labour cost it would mean they could afford to iron out any quality issues. Boy, were they wrong. These are not small companies either. The 'next level evil genius' shortcuts and completely unrepentant attitude when caught red handed was truly a sight to behold.

 

 

So your example applies across the board, ok, got that. Better to stick with locals who take sickies, Mondayitis, cant be bothered, its smoko, that will do, and so on, I will make that an across the board description of all kiwi workers too then


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  Reply # 1971811 9-Mar-2018 12:59
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This culture stuff is pretty stupid, wrong, and inflammatory.

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  Reply # 1971837 9-Mar-2018 13:35
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tdgeek:

 

So your example applies across the board, ok, got that. Better to stick with locals who take sickies, Mondayitis, cant be bothered, its smoko, that will do, and so on, I will make that an across the board description of all kiwi workers too then

 

 

Strawman.


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