Another NetHui debate - topic suggestions invited.

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shanehobson

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#237734 15-Jun-2018 17:49

Andrew Cushen and I have teamed up for the last two NetHui events to debate internet issues affecting many New Zealanders.

In 2016 I argued that the Govt had wasted $1.5b building the UFB network.

In 2017 I argued that mandatory Govt filtering (censorship) of our internet is appropriate.

As you can see, I usually take on the less popular side of the debate.

I'm asking for suggestions from the Geekzone community for a debate topic they would like to see.

Once a topic has been agreed upon, I usually post it here and in another community forum and test the waters. When you're the underdog in a debate it's often helpful to socialise the topic widely and try gather some ideas from the audience.

This will culminate in a live debate at the 2018 Nethui conference between myself and Andrew (or some other lucky individual if Andrew can't oblige).

If you're interested in seeing the 2017 debate, a full length recording is posted here : https://bypass.net.nz/blog/post/18_Apr_2018_filtering_debate_at_nethui_2018

This topic is NOT intended to reopen either of these previous debates, they have well and truely been done and dusted.

Thank you

Shane

Lias

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#2038962 17-Jun-2018 09:04

Well if you want some completely unwinnable ones, here goes.

"The Netflix/Amazon Taxes", why they are good for consumers.
How Chorus is doing a great job with quality control on UFB installs
How copyright is still relevant in the digital age
Why Intellectual Property laws aren't just about protecting corporate wealth

My 2 cents :-P

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

Geektastic

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#2039236 17-Jun-2018 20:02

If internet access cost twice as much, it would be better as a result of greater investment.

shanehobson

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#2064742 30-Jul-2018 06:58

Back again, we have likely settled on a debate with a topic along the lines of "The Government should nationalise internet service delivery in NZ"

We will either propose that the the nationalised service will compete against private enterprise or will propose that all privately owned ISPs are nationalised into a single Govt owned entity, thus replacing the competitive market place with a single entity who's purpose is to deliver great internet to all NZers.

Keep in mind this is a hypothetical scenario designed to encourage discussion. I'm not a raving loony seriously proposing this.

I'm keen to hear from the audience your thoughts, both positive and negative.

thanks
Shane

Lias

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#2064753 30-Jul-2018 07:33

shanehobson:

Keep in mind this is a hypothetical scenario designed to encourage discussion. I'm not a raving loony seriously proposing this.

Guess I'm a raving loony.. I've been saying we should nationalise Telecom and then Chorus for years, and force them all to operate as non profit trust for the benefit of consumers, ala various power trusts :-)

shanehobson

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#2064756 30-Jul-2018 07:44

I'm inclined to agree with you, but didn't want to put off other contributors.

So, can you come up with a reasoned argument in favour of your belief ?

That's the ammo I need for the upcoming debate. Which, by the way, is being held at the NetHui regional conferences in Palmerston North, Greymouth and Invercargill.

Lizard1977

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#2064790 30-Jul-2018 09:14

I guess one of the arguments in favour of nationalisation is the declaration by the UN that internet access is a human right, but that many people still lack that basic access (let alone a "good service") - whether through the limitations of technology or the profit imperative. A nationalised internet provider can be set up to be driven by imperatives other than profits, which can lead to access in areas which would not be justified by a private operator looking to maximise profits. This is a pretty simplified argument, and needs data/evidence to support it.

Of course, we shouldn't overlook the lessons of history. We have had many nationalised industries in the past that have not be as utopically (?) successful as the argument above would suggest. However, it would be worthwhile examining the extent to which their failure/lack of success (however you choose to measure it) was attributable to the fact of it being publicly-owned, or whether there were other issues which a modern, nationalised service could address.

One thing that always makes me smile is when people talk of the "bad days" when it took 3 months for the old Post Office to connect a phone, yet many people are waiting nearly as long to get a broadband connection. Private enterprise is not a panacea to the delivery of efficient and affordable services, and the invisible hand of the market isn't always as impartial as the theory suggests. If private enterprise can fail in the same ways as public enterprise, then we need to look more closely at the causes of failure to better understand both the benefits and disadvantages of the service delivery mode.

This is a fascinating topic, and I'm looking forward to seeing the debate. Guess I should register for NetHui then!

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

Lias

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#2064864 30-Jul-2018 10:58

It's effectively a government issued monopoly, while you can chose your ISP, your ISP for the most part can't chose who/how you are connected to them. It's always just seemed wrong to me that a government issued monopoly , on an essential service, can be awarded to a for profit business, particularly when we have the alternative model of community trusts which the power trusts have shown to work very well.

shanehobson

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#2075112 18-Aug-2018 06:54

The nationalisation argument is the underdog in this debate.

Does anyone have any data or opinion in favour of a nationalised internet delivery service ?

Is this audience old enough to remember the good old days of an affordable electricity supply before the breakup of the old supply network ?

Hammerer

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#2075257 18-Aug-2018 12:00

I remember the good old days. I kept data since the mid 1980s because I was sceptical of the reforms right from the start. My electricity price in my current house has increased by at least an average of 3.8% (165% total increase) a year since the start of 1993 while the CPI has averaged 2.0% (65% total increase). It's easy to find data and arguments regarding electricity but, AFAIK, it wasn't nationalisation per se that made electricity more expensive, it was a raft of structural changes that eliminated any chance of low prices, e.g. http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/8214151/Lets-rethink-our-electricity-industry.

So electricity is a great topic but I'm not so sure about Internet delivery. My Internet delivery prices are rapidly dropping every year. In the last three years mine have nearly halved for unlimited data while the connection speed has doubled. So it is hard to see a greater benefit from nationalisation.

I think that I'd like to see a debate about whether is worth having a Chief Technology Officer for the NZ government or how would that person create a difference. e.g. https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/where-is-new-zealand-s-chief-technology-officer/. They're having problems finding one person so I'd likely appoint two people, split the money between them, and give them different emphases, maybe productivity improvement and future-proofing.