Is New Zealand's recyling any better than Australia's? (Re. 60 Minutes Australia documentary)

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amiga500

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#248996 18-Apr-2019 18:54

'Exposing Australia's recycling lie | 60 Minutes Australia'

'There is no doubt Australia is one of the most wasteful nations in the world, so the practice of recycling helps to lessen our guilt. As we drag our bins out for collection each week, we feel like we’re helping the environment. But the reality is that we’re all being conned. Right now, Australia is stuck in an unsightly and worsening recycling crisis. What is being done with plastic waste, the material most people think would be easy to salvage and re-use, is of the greatest concern. As Liam Bartlett discovers, most of it ends up either being buried or worse – exported to countries like Malaysia, a place we are now treating like a garbage bin.'

This documentary went to air on 15 April and is now on YouTube. Well worth a watch if you haven't seen it already. I am guessing that NZ's record is very similar as we do so many things in the same way as our nearest neighbours!

Oblivian

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#2220810 18-Apr-2019 18:59

We were exporting soft plastics to an/the australian company.. Worked well eh.

Also very co-incidental timing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109708487/a-big-zero-was-the-soft-plastic-recycling-scheme-a-waste-of-time-and-money

pinkydot

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#2220869 18-Apr-2019 21:09

NZ is same with the Aussie. It's on the news before.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018663363/nz-s-role-in-the-malaysian-plastics-dumping-ground

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/01/malaysia-blacklists-imports-of-non-recyclable-plastic-waste.html

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/greenpeace-investigation-allegedly-finds-scattering-nz-waste-being-processed-in-illegal-malaysian-factories

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/109100190/kiwis-recycling-is-piling-up-in-malaysia-and-being-burnt-in-secret-environmentalists-say

Geektastic

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#2220877 18-Apr-2019 22:08

I feel a Tui ad coming on...

100% Pure...yeah, right.

jpoc

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#2220929 19-Apr-2019 08:54

AIUI, the viability of plastic recycling schemes depends heavily on the price of oil.

Back before the GFC, the price hit US$149 per barrel. Plastic recycling was a great idea. You could make products with recycled plastic that cost less than making the same product using oil as the starting point.

The price of oil is now much lower and so plastic recycling makes little sense.

The answer is simple, we need to move much more to plastic re-use. In Germany, most soft drinks are sold in PET bottles on which there is a refundable deposit and the bottles go back to the shop and they are cleaned and reused.

There are still sales of drinks in bottles that are not re-used but there is a deposit scheme on those and they go back to the shop. In part, that is a litter control issue but it also reduces the cost of recycling as you are starting out with a pre-sorted supply of identical items and they are then viable for recycling at lower oil prices.

That is just drink bottles and I accept that it is only a partial solution but if we could treat plastic drink containers like that then we would go a long way to addressing the problem.

amiga500

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#2220950 19-Apr-2019 09:19

jpoc:

AIUI, the viability of plastic recycling schemes depends heavily on the price of oil.

Back before the GFC, the price hit US$149 per barrel. Plastic recycling was a great idea. You could make products with recycled plastic that cost less than making the same product using oil as the starting point.

The price of oil is now much lower and so plastic recycling makes little sense.

The answer is simple, we need to move much more to plastic re-use. In Germany, most soft drinks are sold in PET bottles on which there is a refundable deposit and the bottles go back to the shop and they are cleaned and reused.

There are still sales of drinks in bottles that are not re-used but there is a deposit scheme on those and they go back to the shop. In part, that is a litter control issue but it also reduces the cost of recycling as you are starting out with a pre-sorted supply of identical items and they are then viable for recycling at lower oil prices.

That is just drink bottles and I accept that it is only a partial solution but if we could treat plastic drink containers like that then we would go a long way to addressing the problem.

A massive installation of hidden cameras at places such as petrol stations, airports, malls, movie theatres, council pools, recycling stations, would reveal a whole lot of green wash going on. Far more finishes up in landfills than most people think. At least Westfield malls are being honest - they only have old-school rubbish bins dotted around. None of the fake re-cycling b.s.

Oblivian

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#2220996 19-Apr-2019 10:25

Unfortunately people are to blame there.

Proper recycling takes one of 2 things.

Assurance of no contamination. Or many man hours of filtering to clean it out and separate.

We can't do the first. And the latter costs too much. Z have cup waste bins. What was it filled with yesterday - Receipts, petrol barcode vouchers and tissues

Plastic bins at supermarket - same. Even with a lid on it and letters to say don't.

At the end point, that will be trashed too. Same goes for all the ones going to the bigger bins from small ones at the forecourt

Remember McDonald's attempt to recycle in the 90s?

Staff got busted throwing it into the trash instead of sorting it. Scheme ended abruptly.

amiga500

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#2221027 19-Apr-2019 10:53

Oblivian: Unfortunately people are to blame there.

Proper recycling takes one of 2 things.

Assurance of no contamination. Or many man hours of filtering to clean it out and separate.

We can't do the first. And the latter costs too much. Z have cup waste bins. What was it filled with yesterday - Receipts, petrol barcode vouchers and tissues

Plastic bins at supermarket - same. Even with a lid on it and letters to say don't.

At the end point, that will be trashed too. Same goes for all the ones going to the bigger bins from small ones at the forecourt

Remember McDonald's attempt to recycle in the 90s?

Staff got busted throwing it into the trash instead of sorting it. Scheme ended abruptly.

Managers at McDonalds no doubt thought it would be better having the staff making money by selling food and keeping the facility clean and tidy. This attempt at green wash, and other HQ nonsense, is why so many staff at these places are contemptuous of their employer - and who can blame them?

Christchurch City Council does exactly the same at their Rec and Sport facilities. And their attempt at green washing is even more lame. They have wheelie bins with red and yellow tops. Red for rubbish and yellow for re-cycling. At Jellie Park in the summer this is all done in full view of the pool patrons. Lifeguards or contract cleaners collect black clean sacks from each wheelie bin & it all goes into the same orange skip which then is collected by the big waste management truck. A classic example of senior management coming up with a particularly lame and non-authentic idea. They do make a proper job of collecting cardboard for recyling though.

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Oblivian

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#2221068 19-Apr-2019 11:46

You have to be cautious there..

At least one major collection company in CHCH claims to take mixed goods in 1 bin and deal with it at their depot..

That's on them, not the place collecting

That remains to be proven behind closed gates. I've even seen mixed recycling mass bins. We know that different classes and numbers are treated differently. So to take them mixed is a big call to flag it as BS without seeing what actually happens at the other end.

amiga500

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#2221092 19-Apr-2019 12:11

Oblivian: You have to be cautious there..

At least one major collection company in CHCH claims to take mixed goods in 1 bin and deal with it at their depot..

That's on them, not the place collecting

That remains to be proven behind closed gates. I've even seen mixed recycling mass bins. We know that different classes and numbers are treated differently. So to take them mixed is a big call to flag it as BS without seeing what actually happens at the other end.

Yes, fair comment.

However, in the case of the Christchurch City Council orange skips at the Rec and Sports sites, all sorts of stuff goes in the skip including broken glass, so it would be treated as rubbish. Those orange skips get emptied into the huge waste management trucks.

So what I am saying is that being able to see what really happens at the recycling centres would be very interesting in person, and maybe even more interesting if done with a hidden camera. ;-)

jpoc

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#2221171 19-Apr-2019 15:21

amiga500:

jpoc:

AIUI, the viability of plastic recycling schemes depends heavily on the price of oil.

Back before the GFC, the price hit US$149 per barrel. Plastic recycling was a great idea. You could make products with recycled plastic that cost less than making the same product using oil as the starting point.

The price of oil is now much lower and so plastic recycling makes little sense.

The answer is simple, we need to move much more to plastic re-use. In Germany, most soft drinks are sold in PET bottles on which there is a refundable deposit and the bottles go back to the shop and they are cleaned and reused.

There are still sales of drinks in bottles that are not re-used but there is a deposit scheme on those and they go back to the shop. In part, that is a litter control issue but it also reduces the cost of recycling as you are starting out with a pre-sorted supply of identical items and they are then viable for recycling at lower oil prices.

That is just drink bottles and I accept that it is only a partial solution but if we could treat plastic drink containers like that then we would go a long way to addressing the problem.

A massive installation of hidden cameras at places such as petrol stations, airports, malls, movie theatres, council pools, recycling stations, would reveal a whole lot of green wash going on. Far more finishes up in landfills than most people think. At least Westfield malls are being honest - they only have old-school rubbish bins dotted around. None of the fake re-cycling b.s.

I do not understand how your comment has any relevance at all to what I just posted. Installing any number of cameras will have no impact on the economics of recycling.

amiga500

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#2221287 19-Apr-2019 20:48

jpoc:

amiga500:

jpoc:

AIUI, the viability of plastic recycling schemes depends heavily on the price of oil.

Back before the GFC, the price hit US$149 per barrel. Plastic recycling was a great idea. You could make products with recycled plastic that cost less than making the same product using oil as the starting point.

The price of oil is now much lower and so plastic recycling makes little sense.

The answer is simple, we need to move much more to plastic re-use. In Germany, most soft drinks are sold in PET bottles on which there is a refundable deposit and the bottles go back to the shop and they are cleaned and reused.

There are still sales of drinks in bottles that are not re-used but there is a deposit scheme on those and they go back to the shop. In part, that is a litter control issue but it also reduces the cost of recycling as you are starting out with a pre-sorted supply of identical items and they are then viable for recycling at lower oil prices.

That is just drink bottles and I accept that it is only a partial solution but if we could treat plastic drink containers like that then we would go a long way to addressing the problem.

A massive installation of hidden cameras at places such as petrol stations, airports, malls, movie theatres, council pools, recycling stations, would reveal a whole lot of green wash going on. Far more finishes up in landfills than most people think. At least Westfield malls are being honest - they only have old-school rubbish bins dotted around. None of the fake re-cycling b.s.

I do not understand how your comment has any relevance at all to what I just posted. Installing any number of cameras will have no impact on the economics of recycling.

I am not much interested in the economics of the recycling efforts. I am concerned about the lack of honesty about what is really being done - much the same message as that of the Australian documentary. In the case of the Christchurch City Council it's probably more a tangible demonstration of inept management and policies, rather than an attempt at deception!

Batman

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#2221336 19-Apr-2019 23:55

Was in Tokyo recently. I estimate that Tokyo uses more single use plastic everything inc polystyrene in one day than the entire new Zealand in one year

amiga500

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#2221354 20-Apr-2019 07:29

Batman: Was in Tokyo recently. I estimate that Tokyo uses more single use plastic everything inc polystyrene in one day than the entire new Zealand in one year

One way of looking at it is the more oil being used to make single use plastics means less oil for making Jet A1, petrol, and diesel. Provided a country figures out where to put landfills & puts all the single use plastics in there it must be better than burning them or burning the oil as fuels.

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#2221462 20-Apr-2019 13:50

documentary here

Oblivian

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#2221463 20-Apr-2019 13:55

Theres another documentary from a couple of years back I found interesting. They had it on Prime at some point

The war on waste

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCUdU6zRyZc He did go and put trackers in things (finding them end up in landfill). And hit up the supermarkets as to their actions

The scary thing is, they do what they do, From fear of public not wanting change and going to the competition. Ironic huh.