Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




13315 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

# 255793 30-Aug-2019 10:07
Send private message quote this post

I was musing on this.

 

 

 

I recently needed some binoculars. The three brands that I looked at were Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski. The warranty on all of them is 10 years.

 

 

 

However...in the USA, the warranty on the same (exactly the same) models is lifetime.

 

 

 

Hypothetically, if you had a problem in 20 years time and they refused repair under warranty in NZ, could you argue in the dispute resolution process that the companies clearly accepted that a lifetime warranty was "reasonable" because that was exactly what they offered on identical products in the USA?






View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
2001 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2308289 30-Aug-2019 10:13
Send private message quote this post

Floyd's opinion:

 

Yes, you could argue it.  Not sure if you'd win your case though, probably depends on the fault somewhat as well.

 

I quite like the tangible nature of 10 years.  Lifetime raises that ambiguity that they could argue is the 'life' of the product rather than the owner.





"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." -  Stephen Hawking


467 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2308308 30-Aug-2019 10:43
Send private message quote this post

Since the warranty is 10 years, you wouldn’t be able to submit a warranty claim in 20 years, so there is nothing to argue - the contract you entered into is for 10 years.

If the item failed in the 20 year timeframe and you took an action because you feel it shouldn’t have failed and therefore the manufacturer should repair at their cost, then yes it’s an argument that a lifetime warranty for the same product in a different market has a bearing.

But that argument wouldn’t have much weight in NZ - the contract you agreed to in NZ will have a much higher weighting in terms of the overall argument.




BlinkyBill


 
 
 
 


592 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2308323 30-Aug-2019 11:04
Send private message quote this post

I think you'll find that a Lifetime warranty is based on the Lifetime of the product, which they probably define as 10 years.


2996 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2308325 30-Aug-2019 11:07
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

IANAL but doesn't CGA trump warranty unless warranty period was reasonable considering life of product?

The Zeiss "Lifetime" warranty has usual exclusions for consumable parts (most bits on the outside) and could be subject to regular servicing being carried out. Good luck complaining that the optics had mildewed if the seals had never been replaced.

Overarching undertones
3840 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 2308332 30-Aug-2019 11:14
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

BlinkyBill: Since the warranty is 10 years, you wouldn’t be able to submit a warranty claim in 20 years, so there is nothing to argue - the contract you entered into is for 10 years.

If the item failed in the 20 year timeframe and you took an action because you feel it shouldn’t have failed and therefore the manufacturer should repair at their cost, then yes it’s an argument that a lifetime warranty for the same product in a different market has a bearing.

But that argument wouldn’t have much weight in NZ - the contract you agreed to in NZ will have a much higher weighting in terms of the overall argument.


Not necessarily. If they’re bought in NZ, the governing legislation is the CGA. If someone adjudicating on the CGA determines that a reasonable life for a pair of binoculars is, say, 15 years, that overrides the manufacturer’s warranty.

Edit: Posted this before I saw @Bung ‘s post.

3872 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2308427 30-Aug-2019 12:42
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

The CGA very much trumps any manufacturer warranty, but most suppliers and retailers of well.. anything.. like to pretend otherwise.





Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


467 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2308447 30-Aug-2019 13:20
Send private message quote this post

eracode:
BlinkyBill: Since the warranty is 10 years, you wouldn’t be able to submit a warranty claim in 20 years, so there is nothing to argue - the contract you entered into is for 10 years.

If the item failed in the 20 year timeframe and you took an action because you feel it shouldn’t have failed and therefore the manufacturer should repair at their cost, then yes it’s an argument that a lifetime warranty for the same product in a different market has a bearing.

But that argument wouldn’t have much weight in NZ - the contract you agreed to in NZ will have a much higher weighting in terms of the overall argument.


Not necessarily. If they’re bought in NZ, the governing legislation is the CGA. If someone adjudicating on the CGA determines that a reasonable life for a pair of binoculars is, say, 15 years, that overrides the manufacturer’s warranty.

Edit: Posted this before I saw @Bung ‘s post.

The question I answered was relative to using a foreign warranty clause as an argument in a domestic warranty claim. I wasn’t addressing whether the CGA applied or not.

A CGA claim is not the same as a warranty claim.




BlinkyBill


 
 
 
 




13315 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2308552 30-Aug-2019 16:55
Send private message quote this post

BlinkyBill: Since the warranty is 10 years, you wouldn’t be able to submit a warranty claim in 20 years, so there is nothing to argue - the contract you entered into is for 10 years.

If the item failed in the 20 year timeframe and you took an action because you feel it shouldn’t have failed and therefore the manufacturer should repair at their cost, then yes it’s an argument that a lifetime warranty for the same product in a different market has a bearing.

But that argument wouldn’t have much weight in NZ - the contract you agreed to in NZ will have a much higher weighting in terms of the overall argument.

 

 

 

It's not really a genuine contract because there were no bona fide negotiations.

 

 

 

If they offered you price $X and 10 years or price $Y and 20 years etc I would agree with you. You'd be stuck with what you chose to accept.








13315 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2308554 30-Aug-2019 16:59
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

eracode:
BlinkyBill: Since the warranty is 10 years, you wouldn’t be able to submit a warranty claim in 20 years, so there is nothing to argue - the contract you entered into is for 10 years.

If the item failed in the 20 year timeframe and you took an action because you feel it shouldn’t have failed and therefore the manufacturer should repair at their cost, then yes it’s an argument that a lifetime warranty for the same product in a different market has a bearing.

But that argument wouldn’t have much weight in NZ - the contract you agreed to in NZ will have a much higher weighting in terms of the overall argument.


Not necessarily. If they’re bought in NZ, the governing legislation is the CGA. If someone adjudicating on the CGA determines that a reasonable life for a pair of binoculars is, say, 15 years, that overrides the manufacturer’s warranty.

Edit: Posted this before I saw @Bung ‘s post.

 

 

 

This is kind of what I was getting at.

 

 

 

If you take a claim under the CGA - which I do not believe would be time restricted by the manufacturer's stated length of warranty - it would surely be a very persuasive argument to state that the warranty is lifetime for an identical product in another market and NZ consumers were just being offered a less good warranty for no reason. Identical binoculars (or anything else) are no less likely to develop a manufacturing fault in one country over another.

 

 

 

The warranty is even transferable to subsequent owners in the USA.






Overarching undertones
3840 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 2308599 30-Aug-2019 18:41
Send private message quote this post

@Geektastic Yep I think we’re on the same wavelength and IMO your logic is good. If you made a CGA claim, for binoculars bought in NZ after the manufacturer’s 10 years had elapsed, the fact that they offered a lifetime warranty overseas would be relevant - and the 10 years would be overruled if the expected life of those binoculars in NZ was longer than 10 years. CGA rules.


809 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 2308612 30-Aug-2019 19:24
Send private message quote this post

Geektastic:The warranty on all of them is 10 years.

 

 

 

However...in the USA, the warranty on the same (exactly the same) models is lifetime.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for purchasing this instrument and welcome to the world of SWAROVSKI OPTIK.

 

SWAROVSKI OPTIK warrants all other parts of the instrument for ten years from date of purchase against defects in materials or workmanship, subject to normal use. All electronic components are warranted for two years against defects in materials and workmanship, subject to normal use, from date of purchase. All non-optical products (i.e. accessories, tripods etc.) are warranted for twoyearsfrom date of purchase.

 

 

 

so, you are aware that "lifetime" is lifetime of product, not yours?
It's kind of meaningless, as above, they have made the lifetime 10 years, or 2 years, or whatever.

 

This is the US small print.

 

 

 

All companies do this.

 

And in any case, in NZ, CGA takes precedence. You can't do it with an overseas company, but you can with the retailer in NZ.

 

 


892 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2308636 30-Aug-2019 20:47
Send private message quote this post

Osprey offer a lifetime guarantee.  Have tested it and they do replace if they can't repair (water proofing was coming off).

 

https://www.osprey.com/us/en/customer-support/all-mighty-guarantee 


2494 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2308667 30-Aug-2019 23:38
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Geektastic:

BlinkyBill: Since the warranty is 10 years, you wouldn’t be able to submit a warranty claim in 20 years, so there is nothing to argue - the contract you entered into is for 10 years.

If the item failed in the 20 year timeframe and you took an action because you feel it shouldn’t have failed and therefore the manufacturer should repair at their cost, then yes it’s an argument that a lifetime warranty for the same product in a different market has a bearing.

But that argument wouldn’t have much weight in NZ - the contract you agreed to in NZ will have a much higher weighting in terms of the overall argument.


 


It's not really a genuine contract because there were no bona fide negotiations.


 


If they offered you price $X and 10 years or price $Y and 20 years etc I would agree with you. You'd be stuck with what you chose to accept.



Of course it's a contract - there is offer, acceptable and consideration. There is no legal requirement for negotiation for a contract to be valid.

Overarching undertones
3840 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 2308674 31-Aug-2019 02:42
Send private message quote this post

Handle9:
Geektastic:

 

BlinkyBill: Since the warranty is 10 years, you wouldn’t be able to submit a warranty claim in 20 years, so there is nothing to argue - the contract you entered into is for 10 years.

If the item failed in the 20 year timeframe and you took an action because you feel it shouldn’t have failed and therefore the manufacturer should repair at their cost, then yes it’s an argument that a lifetime warranty for the same product in a different market has a bearing.

But that argument wouldn’t have much weight in NZ - the contract you agreed to in NZ will have a much higher weighting in terms of the overall argument.

 

It's not really a genuine contract because there were no bona fide negotiations.

 

If they offered you price $X and 10 years or price $Y and 20 years etc I would agree with you. You'd be stuck with what you chose to accept.

 



Of course it's a contract - there is offer, acceptable and consideration. There is no legal requirement for negotiation for a contract to be valid.


Yes, it’s a contract because those criteria have been met - but the 10-year warranty part of the terms of the contract could be set-aside by the CGA if it was determined that the reasonable life of a pair of binoculars is longer than 10 years.


2494 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2308675 31-Aug-2019 02:54
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

eracode:

Handle9:
Of course it's a contract - there is offer, acceptable and consideration. There is no legal requirement for negotiation for a contract to be valid.


Yes, it’s a contract because those criteria have been met - but the 10-year warranty part of the terms of the contract could be set-aside by the CGA if it was determined that the reasonable life of a pair of binoculars is longer than 10 years.



Sure but regardless of that it's still a contract. The CGA can set aside the warranty provision if it's relevant but the point was the absence of negotiation isn't relevant as to whether it's a contract or not.

 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Logitech introduces new Made for Google keyboard and mouse devices
Posted 16-Oct-2019 13:36


MATTR launches to accelerate decentralised identity
Posted 16-Oct-2019 10:28


Vodafone X-Squad powers up for customers
Posted 16-Oct-2019 08:15


D Link ANZ launches EXO Smart Mesh Wi Fi Routers with McAfee protection
Posted 15-Oct-2019 11:31


Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51


Facebook Portal to land in New Zealand
Posted 19-Sep-2019 18:35



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.