Waste and planned obsolescence

Forums › Off topic › Waste and planned obsolescence

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19063 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16302

Lifetime subscriber

#283997 24-Mar-2021 19:07

I have a strong objection to our throw-away society. I hate waste, especially when it is unnecessary and - well - wasteful. I hate the fact that electronic devices in particular become obsolete and unusable when they still work perfectly well. I hate the cheap useless consumer crap that comes from China. It used to be a hobby of mine to repair things designed to be 'unrepairable'. That is why I think this is an admirable initiative and deserves all the praise and publicity it can get. We really need to quit producing and consuming rubbish that serves no useful purpose and is designed to die. Stores that sell this kind of stuff need to be called out. Otherwise we really will drown in our own excrement.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

1273 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 596

ID Verified

#2680006 24-Mar-2021 20:47

Believe we already are drowning in our own...

Might be a noble cause, but until there is a complete shift in manufacturing through other companies offshore, as a small nation, we are a minnow in the fight

Referral Link Quic

Free Setup use R502152EQH6OK on check out

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2680130 25-Mar-2021 08:26

The problem is cost.

I don’t mind paying for high quality manufacture that uses top grade materials and/or has cast iron warranties but obviously that has a direct effect on purchase price.

Dyson, for example, made washing machines for a short while. The machines used the same bearings that McLaren use in $700,000 sports cars. The machines were good. However so expensive were they to make that Dyson stopped making them after only a few years.

Snap On tools are expensive but replaced without question, forever, if you break them.

I always aspire to that level of product. Sometimes that means a couple of intermediate steps on the ladder of quality to get there. Of course sometimes I can’t get there because it’s just prohibitively expensive or not available in NZ etc.

Improving repairability of products is sensible but with the sheer number of versions of things, keeping spares might be difficult.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19063 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16302

Lifetime subscriber

#2680148 25-Mar-2021 08:46

Cost is not true cost, which would reflect the environmental impact. The way our economy is structured, true cost is hidden and manufacturers wash their hands of their products as soon as they are out the door. The more they can sell, the bigger their profits. The cheaper they can make it, the bigger their profits. Nowhere is the cost of recycling or the burden on the environment included.

Regarding spare parts: I just had an experience with a TV; identical model to another I was trying to repair, but completely different stand. Brands need to require their sub-contractors to do the same thing in the same way for the sake of compatibility. There is no reason to have everyone keep reinventing the wheel. There should also be increased standardisation between brands, so the parts of one are compatible wherever possible with the others. This is not impossible.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#2680150 25-Mar-2021 08:52

Geektastic:

Improving repairability of products is sensible but with the sheer number of versions of things, keeping spares might be difficult.

I note that "post-Brexit" UK is implementing "right to repair" laws consistent with EU standards.

A good move - in the right direction. NZ should do the same - not rely on CGA for which in many cases people seem to be too apathetic to bother trying to enforce their rights. Much of the cheap nasty garbage being imported and sold here is below the cost of lodging a disputes tribunal claim, as per the garbage K-Mart blender linked to above.

1101

3141 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1143

#2680183 25-Mar-2021 09:59

Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs
Its the consumer , the av punter is 100% to blame for this.

The av consumer wants the LOWEST cost .
$250 for a TV, or $2000 for a TV
$30 for a printer , or $800 for a printer
$150 for a microwave oven, or $600 for a microwave oven.
$60 for a vacuum cleaner , or $600 for a vacuum cleaner

Thats where the market is. The lowest cost. No surprise things dont last .
Unfortunately , some expensive stuff is is also now also poorly made & not made to last (eg plastic parts in car engine bays)

We put up with it.
The power is with us to just say 'no we wont buy that' . That isnt going to happen.
Its a race to the bottom .

nitro

757 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 336

#2680207 25-Mar-2021 10:45

1101:

Lets put the blame firmly where it belongs
Its the consumer , the av punter is 100% to blame for this.

The av consumer wants the LOWEST cost .
$250 for a TV, or $2000 for a TV
$30 for a printer , or $800 for a printer
$150 for a microwave oven, or $600 for a microwave oven.
$60 for a vacuum cleaner , or $600 for a vacuum cleaner

Thats where the market is. The lowest cost. No surprise things dont last .
Unfortunately , some expensive stuff is is also now also poorly made & not made to last (eg plastic parts in car engine bays)

We put up with it.
The power is with us to just say 'no we wont buy that' . That isnt going to happen.
Its a race to the bottom .

true. the market is always led by the consumer.

but sometimes it's not entirely by choice. there are people who can only afford that $250 tv, if at all.

there's also some consideration put on the choice between that new, cheapie with warranty and cga protection or something 'built-to-last-but-may-fail-next-week' off of trademe/ebay, because those are the options in the buyer's price range.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

decibel

335 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 224

#2680240 25-Mar-2021 11:13

Yes, as Fred99 says, it is also very important to be able to repair the junk we bought. https://www.repair.org/

The entire workshop manual of a car I owned 10 years ago was freely available on the internet - no longer.

1101

3141 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1143

#2680452 25-Mar-2021 14:37

decibel:

Yes, as Fred99 says, it is also very important to be able to repair the junk we bought. https://www.repair.org/
The entire workshop manual of a car I owned 10 years ago was freely available on the internet - no longer.

Theres the 'Right to repair" movement in the US, is that having any real success ?
A fight against manufacturers refusing to sell parts to the public (cough cough tesla) or refusing to sell parts or give support to anyone who isnt one of
of their 'authorized' dealers or repair centers (Ive come across that in NZ , even the official repair centre refused to deal with the public wanting repairs).

We still have the issue of the vast public throwing stuff away rather than have it repaired . Many will buy new rather than repair .
Hence the death of many repair various shops & some repair/service industries dying out .

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19063 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16302

Lifetime subscriber

#2680460 25-Mar-2021 14:59

People have been manipulated by commercial propaganda. It takes time to change their thinking. The right to repair movements are an important step in the right direction. So is shaming outfits like Kmart that encourage irresponsible profligacy.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Earbanean

1110 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 377

#2680565 25-Mar-2021 16:26

Rikkitic:

People have been manipulated by commercial propaganda. It takes time to change their thinking. The right to repair movements are an important step in the right direction. So is shaming outfits like Kmart that encourage irresponsible profligacy.

You could potentially modify that to "Some people have been.."

1101

3141 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1143

#2680933 26-Mar-2021 10:28

Earbanean:

You could potentially modify that to "Some people have been.."

MOST people have been .
If not , we wouldnt be having this discussion :-)

Apple TV

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2680954 26-Mar-2021 10:54

Fred99:
Geektastic:

Improving repairability of products is sensible but with the sheer number of versions of things, keeping spares might be difficult.

I note that "post-Brexit" UK is implementing "right to repair" laws consistent with EU standards.

A good move - in the right direction. NZ should do the same - not rely on CGA for which in many cases people seem to be too apathetic to bother trying to enforce their rights. Much of the cheap nasty garbage being imported and sold here is below the cost of lodging a disputes tribunal claim, as per the garbage K-Mart blender linked to above.

I’ll bet you lunch it won’t work. Mainly because people won’t be hassled with trying to get many things repaired because they’ve been superseded. For example if you had a 10 year old CRT TV would you spend money repairing it or buy a new 4K lcd TV?

I note the BBC article makes mention of saving $140 a year. Frankly, many people spend twice that a week in the supermarket. It’s an irrelevant sum unlikely to be sufficient to alter consumer behaviour.

Earbanean

1110 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 377

#2680971 26-Mar-2021 11:19

1101:

Earbanean:

You could potentially modify that to "Some people have been.."

MOST people have been .
If not , we wouldnt be having this discussion :-)

There's roughly 8 billion people.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19063 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16302

Lifetime subscriber

#2680974 26-Mar-2021 11:22

Geektastic:

I’ll bet you lunch it won’t work. Mainly because people won’t be hassled with trying to get many things repaired because they’ve been superseded. For example if you had a 10 year old CRT TV would you spend money repairing it or buy a new 4K lcd TV?

I note the BBC article makes mention of saving $140 a year. Frankly, many people spend twice that a week in the supermarket. It’s an irrelevant sum unlikely to be sufficient to alter consumer behaviour.

Without getting personal about it, I think you may be guilty of slightly blinkered thinking. Someone who has more than enough to live comfortably on may not be bothered by $140 a year, but someone who is truly struggling to feed their children may find that a very significant amount. It is easy to be arrogant without intending it if can't fully put yourself in someone else's place.

Apart from that, a CRT TV wouldn't work so not much point in repairing it. You would need a DVB-T or DVB-S box to receive anything, and it would have to have an AV output that would work in the TV.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

frankv

5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

#2680983 26-Mar-2021 11:45

Rikkitic:

Apart from that, a CRT TV wouldn't work so not much point in repairing it. You would need a DVB-T or DVB-S box to receive anything, and it would have to have an AV output that would work in the TV.

I am sure he means a TV built using Cathode Ray Tube technology... the sort of thing that was normal for TVs until about 10? years ago. They had circuitry for receiving TV signals from free-to-air transmissions via an aerial.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4