Parking over fire hydrants

Forums › Off topic › Parking over fire hydrants

SirHumphreyAppleby

2962 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1888

#300523 15-Sep-2022 13:53

Without going into the specifics (Auckland Transport, enough said), what are the actual rules surrounding parking near fire hydrants?

According to Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 S6.10(2) "A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle between the nearer edge of the roadway and any portion of a marking on the roadway indicating the presence of a fire hydrant, the centre of which marking is not more than 6 m from a fire hydrant situated outside the roadway".

Based on what I have seen over the years with tickets being issued for cars parked between the marking near the centre of the road and the yellow curb marking, I interpret this as meaning parking in front of the curb marking is an offence. I still see this enforced on the main road, but complaints relating to the exact same thing on residential streets go nowhere. This is apparent because there has been no change in driver behaviour, despite multiple complaints about repeat offenders. Recently, AT started including a summary of action taken and many of the complaints are coming back stating "Officer attended - vehicle parked legally". The only exception seems to be when vehicles are parked on top of hydrants in the road, which is certainly not the case up on the main road.

Vehicles parking over driveways (not enforced) and over fire hydrants are a real risk to people and property, unlike someone innocently driving down a poorly marked bus lane for example, so I would consider these rules that need to be strictly enforced. In the case of parking over driveways, the rules even state they MUST be considered an obstruction if within 1m, but AT seems to pick and choose which rules to apply and how to apply them.

1 | 2

7878 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7584

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2968639 15-Sep-2022 14:07

I would assume by the logic of Bus Lane infringements being heavily policed and Hydrant infringements not, that it has a lot to do with what brings in more revenue.

Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale

*Gladly accepting donations...

hsvhel

1277 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 598

ID Verified

#2968641 15-Sep-2022 14:12

Have had this conversation from a fireman's perspective before. They will do one of two things if needed.

-Move you car in the quickest most efficient method for them, usually using the rig

-Provide your cabin with ample ventilation through windown removal. this also allows for an A-B hose run to. win/win

Referral Link Quic

Free Setup use R502152EQH6OK on check out

alasta

6912 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3400

Trusted

Subscriber

#2968645 15-Sep-2022 14:20

Suburban parking enforcement is also pretty much non-existent in Wellington. I frequently run around the city and constantly see cars parked over fire hydrants, driveways, yellow lines, bus stops and footpaths.

Recently a lot of street parking has been removed and it seems that drivers are rebelling and have discovered that there are no consequences for doing so. I emailed one of my local councilors about it and she just ignored me.

cruxis

514 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 349

#2968646 15-Sep-2022 14:24

Can the houseowner park accross his own driveway entrance? I do it all the time if I know going out again later.

Dingbatt

6808 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3703

Lifetime subscriber

#2968651 15-Sep-2022 14:32

This prompted me to go out and look at the hydrant outside our place. The hydrant point itself is right against the line dividing our property from the council verge. As a courtesy (and for self preservation) I keep the area around the cover clean and clear of vegetation. The yellow paint is fading on the cover and if you get the angle correct in the right light, you can just about make out yellow marking on the kerb. (A roundabout way of saying the paint could do with a freshen up).

Oh, and the neighbour’s car is currently parked across the kerb marking.

The OP only needed to state “Auckland Transport” and all else is explained. Too busy on their anti car crusade to do much of real value.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

scuwp

3927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2510

#2968654 15-Sep-2022 14:37

cruxis:
Can the houseowner park accross his own driveway entrance? I do it all the time if I know going out again later.

No!

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

blackjack17

1715 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 868

#2968655 15-Sep-2022 14:38

cruxis:

Can the houseowner park accross his own driveway entrance? I do it all the time if I know going out again later.

No you can't. You can get ticketed for that.

Electric kiwi signup credit Sharesies credit

SirHumphreyAppleby

2962 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1888

#2968656 15-Sep-2022 14:47

blackjack17:

No you can't. You can get ticketed for that.

You can get ticketed, but I have seen AT parking wardens walk around the street checking vehicles and completely ignore this offence.

On one occasion a vehicle was parked over our driveway. I reported it and AT towed the vehicle (I assume only because I said 'yes' to being a resident of the affected property). While waiting for the tow truck (probably 45 minutes), the warden walked around the street looking at vehicles and right past a vehicle parked over another driveway. They did absolutely nothing.

DonH

232 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 158

Lifetime subscriber

#2968723 15-Sep-2022 16:46

SirHumphreyAppleby:

.. the warden walked around the street looking at vehicles and right past a vehicle parked over another driveway. They did absolutely nothing.

They were probably looking for expired rego or WOF. $200 fine for each, much more lucrative than the fine for parking over a driveway.

People hear what they see. - Doris Day

Bung

6768 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2951

Subscriber

#2968737 15-Sep-2022 17:24

SirHumphreyAppleby:
Without going into the specifics (Auckland Transport, enough said), what are the actual rules surrounding parking near fire hydrants?

According to Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 S6.10(2) "A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle between the nearer edge of the roadway and any portion of a marking on the roadway indicating the presence of a fire hydrant, the centre of which marking is not more than 6 m from a fire hydrant situated outside the roadway".

Clause 1 of the rule seems more obvious. Don't park over a hydrant on the road itself but you only need to be clear of the 1m circle round the hydrant cover. With Clause 2 that seems to apply when the hydrant is on the road reserve how much space at the curb do you need to allow? Enough for the fire appliance to park or just a 1m gap?

Our house in Wellington had between 4 and 6m of grass verge with a hydrant in the middle of the grassed area. Once the blue reflector appeared in the middle of the road the painted markings weren't redone. When the water main was renewed the hydrant was shifted to the middle of the road.

As for driveways being a fire safety thing that seems a bit of a stretch. Our drive was in front of a garage on the front boundary with a pedestrian gate on the other side leading to the house. Even with drives going past the house I've never seen Fire or Ambulance going down the drive instead of parking on the street.

SirHumphreyAppleby

2962 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1888

#2968742 15-Sep-2022 17:32

As for driveways being a fire safety thing that seems a bit of a stretch.

I didn't claim they were. The driveway rules are for access and visibility.

Mighty Ape

Shop now at Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

Scott3

4187 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3003

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2968757 15-Sep-2022 18:33

Must admit I wasn't aware of part 2 of the fire hydrant rule until about a year ago. Guess I was just lucky my car wasn't needed to be dragged out of the way by a fire truck.

Legislation link:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303606.html

Note The roadway definition in that legislation is as follows:

"roadway means that portion of the road used or reasonably usable for the time being for vehicular traffic in general"

On Auckland Council.

It is fairly well known that they don't take enforcement action against cars parked across driveway's unless there has been a complaint lodged.

Based on the amount of cars I see parked on the footpath, I suspect this may be the case here also, but I know they do write tickets if a complaint is lodged.

Auckland council have fairly recently stopped ticketing vehicles that breaks it bylaw by parking on roadside grass / flower beds. A real pity as this is becoming more common as people work this out, and Auckland soil turns into a real mess in winter when people drive on it.

I have been told that a senior leader in charge of Auckland council parking, as an approach of trying to please as many people as possible, and hence enforcement of stuff like footpath parking is limited.

Also there seems to have been quite a move to automation. On the whole I strongly support that. However it does create quite the distortion where things that the enforcement can be automated are enforced a lot more than things that cannot.

As an example, all the bus lanes around my area have moved from having occasional enforcement by an officer (with camera's), to having permanently mounted camera's on poles (and in many more locations that they used to use for manual enforcement, needed because they are in a fixed location). Obviously a permanently mounted camera with an automated system might as well be run for the entire operational hours of the lanes, so I think this would mean 20 to 50 times more enforcement of bus lanes.

The council has white hatchbacks with mounted number plate recognition camera. They seem to multiple laps of my suburb most day's. This means that people who are parked too long get tickets in pretty short order, but the officer (? - they might just be a driver) doesn't get out of the car and do the manual stuff required to enforce the likes of footpath parking.

This has seen quite a shift in compliance. A decade ago, driving in bus lane's was much more common than it is today. But on the other hand, stuff like grass verge parking seems to be getting much worse.

Bung:

Clause 1 of the rule seems more obvious. Don't park over a hydrant on the road itself but you only need to be clear of the 1m circle round the hydrant cover. With Clause 2 that seems to apply when the hydrant is on the road reserve how much space at the curb do you need to allow? Enough for the fire appliance to park or just a 1m gap?

Our house in Wellington had between 4 and 6m of grass verge with a hydrant in the middle of the grassed area. Once the blue reflector appeared in the middle of the road the painted markings weren't redone. When the water main was renewed the hydrant was shifted to the middle of the road.

As for driveways being a fire safety thing that seems a bit of a stretch. Our drive was in front of a garage on the front boundary with a pedestrian gate on the other side leading to the house. Even with drives going past the house I've never seen Fire or Ambulance going down the drive instead of parking on the street.

The 500mm radius is to allow space for the vertical bit of the fire hydrant to be mounted, and to allow space for handles to operated.

The second part is to allow a path to run a hose from the hydrant to the fire truck. If fire hydrant is on the footpath, and there is a row of parked car's alongside the cerb, the fire truck will stop in the live lane, with it's intake lined up with the hydrant. Intake / suction hoses aren't huge (64mm nominal?), so can be poked between parked car's.

Guess the typical length of a suction hose less than 6m, so any fire hydrants more than 6m from the marking are intended to be accessed from off the roadway.

On driveways, I think the legislation has been written to outright ban it largely for ease of enforcement, and simplicity of wording. Adding "Unless every occupant of the property accessed by the driveway has approved the car be parked here" would put the authorities in a pretty difficult spot when somebody calls to complain that their driveway is blocked. Would need to formally verify that the person who called is an occupant of the property, and get a statement that they did not approve the car being parked in that location... Much simpler with the current law, where it doesn't matter who's car it is, because parking across a driveway is blanket illegal.

Must say there are a couple of big advantages in not allowing occupants to park across their own vehicle entrances:

On narrow streets (streets where car's have to wait for oncoming traffic due to insufficient space for two moving cars to pass, when next to a parked car), Driveway's function as defacto waiting area's for traffic to allow oncoming traffic to pass.
It removes the incentive to install otherwise un-needed (or unnecessarily wide) curb cuts, for the purpose of reserving on street parking bays for the property occupant. (But in some cases people still use their cerb cuts for this purpose due to lack of enforcement)

neb

11294 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2969178 16-Sep-2022 15:08

Handsomedan:
I would assume by the logic of Bus Lane infringements being heavily policed and Hydrant infringements not, that it has a lot to do with what brings in more revenue.

Also with bus lanes it's fully automated - ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching - while with hydrant parking they have to send someone out to deal with it.

HelloThere

179 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 113

#2969271 16-Sep-2022 17:58

I guess not parking related but I was on the understanding that you could park on a fire hydrant as long as someone who could legally move the vehicle remained with it so it could be moved if needed?

SirHumphreyAppleby

2962 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1888

#2969274 16-Sep-2022 18:00

HelloThere: I guess not parking related but I was on the understanding that you could park on a fire hydrant as long as someone who could legally move the vehicle remained with it so it could be moved if needed?

That is correct. S6.10(3).

1 | 2