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kingdragonfly

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#310603 5-Nov-2023 08:47
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In New Plymouth, since Thursday, someone has been using fireworks nightly from 7 pm till late. Saturday it stopped last night at 11 pm.

I was awaked at 1 am by what I drowsily thought was someone throwing tennis balls at my bedroom window. I’m sure someone thought that was funny.

I expect a repeat tonight, on Guy Fawkes today.

Last New Years there were 12 incidents involving the fire service and fireworks. Incidents scattered across the country in one night were a house roof fire, a government building roof fire, a park fire, four homes evacuated, campers fled a reserve, a school site fire, several hectares burned, many fire worker worked at many sites on foot up to 2:30 am in sites too rough for appliances.

SPCA and zoos are asking Kiwis to not purchase or use any fireworks.

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said he believes banning fireworks is not something he'd ever look at doing: "I think people should have a choice and I think there has been good education, growing education over a number of years"

NewshubNew survey reveals most Kiwis support banning backyard or recreational fireworks

As Guy Fawkes fast approaches and fireworks set to go on sale from Thursday, a new survey has found the majority of Kiwis support a ban on their use.

The survey released to AM by AA Insurance found 53 percent of those surveyed supported a ban for recreational use, while an additional 20 percent wanted to go further and have fireworks banned entirely.

Tom Bartlett from AA Insurance told AM on Wednesday a lot of the respondents cared about the safety of others.

He told co-host Melissa Chan-Green AA was "surprised" by the amount of people who wanted to ban fireworks completely.

"I think that takes the current theme of people care about the safety and the responsibility and the public nuisance that fireworks can cause," he said.

Scaring animals, risk of fire, social disruption and irresponsible use ranked among the top reasons for people wanting them banned.

"We're a nation that loves our pets and so there's a real big issue around fireworks and our pets... also, the potential for fires, the potential for property damage and for personal injury, so that was a big concern raised and finally, just the social disturbance and nuisance it causes," Bartlett said.

"I think not everybody is conscious about when they set fireworks off and so those with young families have probably had to sit through many nights of fireworks going off all through the night and I think that really gets at Kiwis."

While fireworks can only be sold for the four days leading up to Guy Fawkes, many local councils have banned their use in public places such as parks or beaches.
Traumatic week for animals: SPCA, zoos back calls for fireworks ban
...

It comes after the SPCA on Monday pleaded with Kiwis to put fireworks down and to "take a stand for animal welfare".

The charity said it receives dozens of welfare calls every year relating to animals that have run away in distress, been injured, frightened and occasionally deliberately abused with fireworks.

In a statement, SPCA scientific officer Alison Vaughan said the loud noises and bright flashes from fireworks can cause "severe distress" for pets, farm animals and native bird populations.

"Research shows that fireworks can have both short and long-term impacts on bird populations, from the initial panic causing birds to flee an area or even death to long-term impacts on breeding success.

"A survey of horse guardians in New Zealand also found that 35 percent of respondents reported having horses break through a fence in response to fireworks and more than a quarter of respondents reported horses sustaining injuries."
...

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Geektastic
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  #3156083 5-Nov-2023 09:28
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Whilst I see the point, there seems to be a call for banning this or that about every five minutes these days.

Overall, I think there should be quite a high bar before things are banned as opposed to regulated.







SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #3156084 5-Nov-2023 09:36
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I have some thoughts on this :) I am in a unique position, being both a Certified Handler for Class 1 substances (including 1.4G which applies to retail fireworks) and volunteer with a conservation organisation.

 

I question the validity of the survey. In 2019 Auckland Council sought feedback on a propsed ban of retail fireworks. In that survey, 89% of respondents are said to have supported a ban. The survey solicited feedback via social media and attracted a large number of low quality submissions from people intent on a ban. The majority of these submissions were nothing more than brief assertions, completely devoid of fact, coming from a position of bias. Demographic data in the report confirms this sample is not representative of New Zealand society as a whole.

 

There were 7,997* submissions, 7,041 of which were said to be in support of the Council’s proposed ban. Of the submissions, 60% cited concerns around safety (including animal welfare), 31% cited noise concerns and 24% were concerned about stockpiling fireworks for use throughout the year.

 

There is significant overlap between animal walfare concerns and noise, with quotes from submissions putting these concerns in both categories. The issue with stockpiling is, again, mostly driven by concerns around noise. An overall reduction in noise is possible without resorting to an outright ban.

 

The current regulations limit the pyrotechnics substance in consumer fireworks to 40g and impose a 90dB noise level at 15m. These is low by international standards. In the UK, the permitted noise level is 120dB at 15m, while in the US pyrotechnic composition is limited to 500g – twelve and a half times the New Zealand limit.

 

Since the ban on skyrockets, we have seen an increase in the availability of ‘candle’ products. These meet a demand for vertical flight and elevated effects that skyrockets used to provide. By limiting the powder composition however, the laws of physics dictate that more energetic compositions must be used. More energetic compositions will produce more noise.

 

I do not consider further reducing the noise limit in New Zealand to be practical. I am in favour of increasing the limits on pyrotechnic substances available in consumer products, although any change to the limits should be carefully considered to avoid wholesale increases in the use of high energy compositions and therefore noise and potential risk. Increasing the limits would help shift products from candles to cakes which are inherently stable, not relying on the user to properly support them, and are not shaped in a way which encourages hand holding.

 

The easiest way how to achieve lower overall sound levels is actually very simple – remove the existing restrictions on flying fireworks such as sky rockets, buzzy bees and similar products. These items provide the effects consumers are looking for, but more importantly, their function requires the use of low energy compositions which are inherently less noisy.

 

Unlike the pre-ban days, we now have a robust certification process in place to ensure products are of a suitable standard for sale, with each batch tested to a minimum 95% compliance (in practice, closer to 99.5% as there are multiple criteria). Section 11(1) of the Hazardous Substances (Fireworks) Regulations 2001 already includes requirements for establishing product safety and will continue to ensure products sold in New Zealand remain as safe as practically possible.

 

While I am generally in favour of allowing previously prohibited fireworks to be sold again through retail channels, I am not recommending crackers (Double Happys for example) be made available on animal welfare grounds. While these are not particularly loud, misuse was an issue.

 

 

 

* There are inconsistencies in numbers within the Council’s own report.

 

 


Loismustdye
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  #3156085 5-Nov-2023 09:36
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I enjoy fireworks and do it most years, responsibly though, telling the near neighbours that we do it so they can keep their pets etc inside. In saying that our kids are 11 so it’s usually over and done with by about 9-930.

 

I don’t agree with a ban, but I do think there needs to be bigger penalties etc to deal with the dickheads




RunningMan
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  #3156089 5-Nov-2023 09:43
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Anecdotally speaking to people I know, same thing. Each year there seems to be more support for a ban other than commercial/professional displays etc.

 

kingdragonfly: [snip] Prime Minister Christopher Luxon

 

That would be Chris Hipkins. https://www.govt.nz/organisations/department-of-the-prime-minister-and-cabinet/ 


tweake
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  #3156092 5-Nov-2023 09:59
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there is so few people letting off fireworks and there is probably more misuse than proper use, you might as well ban them. plus the commercial displays are just so much better. 


Eva888
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  #3156093 5-Nov-2023 10:00
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Sadly all people are not responsible and if they collectively were, there wouldn’t be an issue. I enjoy watching fireworks and would prefer large public displays or very restricted places to light them.

Every year we have people climbing the hill behind our house and firing them across the houses below into the early hours. You spend all night worrying that some fireworks are smouldering ready to ignite in the long grasses at the base of the hill. Since our hill caught fire once before I constantly go out and check as it’s only a matter of time till it happens again.

At best, ban fireworks in populated areas and restrict to beaches firing towards the water or stony areas. Why should someone’s idea of fun endanger another's home, pets or native birds. Loss of eyes, severe burns etc.

This custom is a Northern Hemisphere one where November is winter and likely rainy, snowy and freezing. Here November is summer with long warm days and encouraging to stay out late.

Cant help hoping for the cold Southerly with wind and rain to hit from 6pm.

 
 
 
 

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SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #3156099 5-Nov-2023 10:16
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tweake:

 

plus the commercial displays are just so much better. 

 

 

I like the social aspect, getting together with the neighbours each year. I enjoy that more than public displays, where the endless multi-shot mines and star shells get boring very quickly. I recall one display which was just pairs of star shells being launched one pair after another. Yawn!

 

Professional displays with fireballs, fountains, lance work, girandola and giant Catherine wheels can be fun, but you typically only see that sort of thing at corporate events. When it's a private event with a closer audience, then you may get the cool stuff.


Dingbatt
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  #3156108 5-Nov-2023 11:21
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Perhaps a middle ground could be found where the private use of fireworks is restricted in time. Maybe if you were allowed to set them off for a certain number of days around guy fawkes (or a more suitable NZ date)? Beyond that you would need a council permit to use them. That wouldn’t be a “ban” but it would reduce the random use of them weeks and months after guy fawkes.

 

Yes, I envisage a cost involved in obtaining a council permit, including providing a health and safety plan. But if letting fireworks off in the dry summer months means that much to you, I’m sure you would pay 😒. Essentially, nothing is banned, it just becomes much more difficult for dickheads to (legally) disturb the peace for the next few months.

 

After being woken at 2am this morning by fireworks, I would like to see a limit on what time they can be used. Anyone using them at 2am is more than likely under the influence, which makes it more dangerous.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Behodar
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  #3156111 5-Nov-2023 11:42
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Dingbatt:

 

After being woken at 2am this morning by fireworks, I would like to see a limit on what time they can be used.

 

 

There are already (non-firework-specific) laws around "unreasonable" or "excessive" noise. Fireworks at 2am, especially outside "firework season", would fall under that. The problem is enforcement, and I don't see that becoming any easier even if there was a firework-specific limit.


SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #3156113 5-Nov-2023 11:50
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Dingbatt:

 

Perhaps a middle ground could be found where the private use of fireworks is restricted in time. Maybe if you were allowed to set them off for a certain number of days around guy fawkes (or a more suitable NZ date)? Beyond that you would need a council permit to use them. That wouldn’t be a “ban” but it would reduce the random use of them weeks and months after guy fawkes.

 

 

No date is more suitable than the traditional one. I'm probably in the minority of 'industry' people, in that I support a ban on their use at other times of the year (retail). I stick rigidly with the November 5th tradition and think there should be just one date, with a reasonable allowance for bad weather.

 

Display operators don't require council permits and I think such a requirement would be a regression. Instead, the existing certification requirements should be tweaked, allowing professionals to self-certify displays under limited circumstances and allow venues to be approved for various classes of fireworks use, conditional only on fire service and CAA approval (where applicable). This would reduce the costs associated with running smaller displays. Currently, sites can be certified for regular explosives use, but fireworks displays are explicitly excluded, meaning every single outdoor display must be signed off in advance. If you're trying to have a few fireworks for a wedding or something, it's a significant expense just to get approval.


tweake
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  #3156114 5-Nov-2023 11:53
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SirHumphreyAppleby:

 

I like the social aspect, getting together with the neighbours each year.

 

 

that used to be the case, everyone used to join in, but every year its less and less people. now almost no one here bothers to and its usually the same old idiots doing idiot stuff for weeks on end.  


 
 
 
 

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ezbee
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  #3156117 5-Nov-2023 12:04
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Fireworks to 1 or 2am is pretty usual for my area.
Especially the very loud ones, sparklers, roman candles and quiet stuff after 10/11 is not a thing.

 

Its worse now for skyrockets seem to be out as the small mortars used to launch things are especially noisy very loud bang. 
That carries quite long distances.
Not a whooosh of skyrocket you could sleep through. 

 

I have noted that supply seems to be lasting year round, so these pop up all through the year.
I thought expense would have reduced stockpiling, but it seems there is disposable money floating around.

 

Noise control have an easier time policing continuous party noise.
For fireworks that are set off occasionally from different properties.
Nailing down exact locations may take time.
You arrive and no one is letting off fireworks while you are there. 

 

People have basically moved on from the social caring and responsibility that gave them pause to think.
So relying on responsibility is not going to work.


gehenna
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  #3156120 5-Nov-2023 12:24
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Fireworks can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Public or private.


SJB

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  #3156121 5-Nov-2023 12:26
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Can someone explain to me why Guy Fawkes is even relevant in NZ?


FineWine
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  #3156124 5-Nov-2023 12:39
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In Tauranga, where I live, there is a large Indian population. They tend to buy up big during the allowed sales period and hoard them to use during the coming year for their own religious and birthday celebrations. Admittedly each family appear to only fire off 2 or 3 between 2000 & 2359 during the year and appear to be very responsible users of these pyrotechnics.

 

When I was a kid my older brother used to build cheap plastic WWII planes and he would stuff a rocket into a modified hole at the rear and we would launch them off a plank from the top of our outside steps at the side of our Wellington, Karori house into the front yard. Oh what fun and joy.





Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.


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