annual leave , not gettting 4 weeks

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1101

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#317938 28-Nov-2024 19:45

I just wondering the best way to handle not getting my 4 weeks annual leave .
Ive been there 2 years , and have accrued just over 5 weeks of paid holiday leave due.

Im not unreasonable & wouldnt ask during the busy time of year (Aug-December)
However , casually mentioning my annual leave , and asking for a week of mid year got me no where.

Today the boss told us the days we will be closed for xmas , and said because of the weeks closed that we have off, he wouldnt expect anyone to ask for time off for the following 3 months : ie the time summer months .

Last time I asked for a week , I was given 3 days take it or leave it (and not when I wanted those days off)
I mentioned it again this & was offered an extra week before I have to come back after the holiday shutdown period. Chance are he will change his mind as he didnt seem keen on the idea . I'd rather have time off in Feb.

The business is run understaffed , so staff taking time off causes issues because of this . But thats his choice to run it understaffed .

Feels like a no win situation.
I dont want to keep accruing holiday leave that I cant take . I suspect the rest of the staff there will be in the same boat but wont bring it up.
Its almost like asking about due holiday weeks is seen as not being a team player .

Any advice ?
Cheers

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#3313935 28-Nov-2024 19:59

Legally you can ask your employer to "cash up" or pay you for one week of annual leave a year, If you are being prevented from taking your leave ask they to pay you part of it

https://www.employment.govt.nz/pay-and-hours/pay-and-wages/leave-and-holiday-pay/cashing-up-annual-holidays

If they point blank refuse, then I would seriously start looking around for another place to work.....

Qazzy03

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#3313936 28-Nov-2024 20:13

https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/annual-holidays/taking-annual-holidays#scroll-to-1 What you’re entitled to

You become entitled to 4 weeks of annual holidays (also called annual leave) when you have worked continuously for your employer for 12 months. You may, however, have been granted more than 4 weeks annual holidays in your employment agreement.

Your employer:

must allow you to take annual holidays when you want to, unless they have good reason not to
must pay you for annual holidays before you take them unless you have agreed to be paid in your normal pay cycle
can require you to take annual holidays in certain circumstances
can choose to allow you to take some of your annual holiday entitlement in advance.

In some cases, you can agree with your employer to have your annual holidays paid out with your regular pay instead of taking time off – also called ‘pay-as-you-go’ holiday pay. This can only happen if you:

are on a fixed-term contract
of less than 12 months, or
work so irregularly that it is not possible in practice for your employer to provide you with four weeks’ annual holidays in the normal way.

Pay-as-you-go annual holiday payments

You can also ask to ‘cash up’ up to one week of your annual holidays each year if you want to. This means you get paid extra instead of taking annual holidays as time off work.

Cashing up annual holiday

*********************************************

https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/how-to-resolve-problems/steps-to-resolve-problems

When an employment issue is raised, it’s important to act promptly and follow an agreed process for resolving problems.

Ignoring a problem and hoping it will go away can lead to bigger problems later. Delays can also create added frustration and ‘avoidable distress’, with productivity, legal and cost consequences

Seek mediation help

If you have not been successful, or you would like some outside help, our free phone-based early resolution service provides assistance to resolve workplace issues quickly and informally before they become too serious and require a more formal process.

Early resolution

hsvhel

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#3313939 28-Nov-2024 20:26

Is there room to relocate in your field....to a company that operates a bit better?

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SomeoneSomewhere

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#3313940 28-Nov-2024 20:31

https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/annual-holidays/managing-annual-holidays#scroll-to-7

If you want to, your employer must allow you to take at least a 2-week block of leave at once, once per year, and take leave within a year of it being accrued. Asking for the full block could make you unpopular, but it's something they are required to give you.

Annual holidays (also called ‘annual leave’) can be taken at any time agreed to by you and an employee. You must allow your employees to:

take annual holidays within 12 months of the date on which they become entitled to them.
take at least 2 of their 4 weeks of annual holidays at once, if they wish to.

Preventing you from taking leave (especially long blocks) during the 'busy' season isn't unreasonable especially if it's a regular thing and known in advance. Unfortunately, the time to push back was probably mid-year and book a solid week or two further out from then.

At this stage, I would probably be giving the boss three-ish dates for a 1-2 week holiday in Feb-Mar/Apr and saying 'please tell me which of these is most suitable'.

If you cannot agree on when to take holidays, your employer can dictate dates with 14 days notice. Not ideal.

Separately, you are entitled to 4 weeks leave per year that you work. Note that while many/most employers accrue leave on a percentage basis (i.e. you get an hour of leave per 7.7 hours worked, or a day of leave per 7.7 working days), technically they are only required to give you the leave on yearly anniversaries of you starting employment:

For employees who work the same hours on the same days each week, annual holiday entitlement is simple to work out. Every 12 months, on their anniversary for annual holidays entitlement, they can take 4 of their working weeks as paid annual holidays.

So if you have been there over 24 months, you should have minimum 8 weeks leave, minus any that has been taken or cashed out. If you don't have that much leave, ask them for an accounting of how much leave you have accrued and how much has been taken.

Not being able to agree on when to take leave is shitty, but stealing your leave is wage theft, which is unfortunately not criminal.

PolicyGuy

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#3313948 28-Nov-2024 21:14

Seems to me like it's time to look for a better employer.

1101

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#3313949 28-Nov-2024 21:14

SomeoneSomewhere:

At this stage, I would probably be giving the boss three-ish dates for a 1-2 week holiday in Feb-Mar/Apr and saying 'please tell me which of these is most suitable'.

The chance of getting 2 weeks would be zero.
He has said he doesnt expect anyone to be asking for leave Jan/Feb/mar , because we all had time off during the xmas shutdown weeks.
A bit of a unrealistic attitude on his part ?

Im sure all the other staff will be owed heaps of weeks off , that they havnt taken. So for me to push this , wont be looked on in a good way.

I had a look at what the law says & what Im entitled to , Im just looking at how to approach this.
Im going to need to say Im owed 5 weeks .
I know he wont give me anything near that , ie his offer of an extra week at xmas (which he instantly regretted & said it wouldnt work)

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SomeoneSomewhere

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#3313951 28-Nov-2024 21:18

It's not really unreasonable to have a no-leave or less-leave period for certain periods of the year - post and retail nearing Christmas is common. It doesn't sound like it's a good reason or limited to that period of the year (rather than a perpetual next-three-months) but that's not really an argument you want to have.

The law says you're entitled to a two week block every year. You could push for that early in the year and agree to have it later on if they give you a week or a few days sooner.

Do your payslips have a leave balance listed on them?

1101

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#3313953 28-Nov-2024 21:20

PolicyGuy:

Seems to me like it's time to look for a better employer.

Ive had worse .
Not a good time to try & find a job, in a recession .
1/2 the staff arnt happy there . Ive seen 3 female workers in tears , due to stress (understaffed so workload is far too high)

hsvhel

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#3313954 28-Nov-2024 21:22

Without knowing all sides, it seems you have enough red flags from what's written.....

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Handle9

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#3313955 28-Nov-2024 21:23

1101:

SomeoneSomewhere:

At this stage, I would probably be giving the boss three-ish dates for a 1-2 week holiday in Feb-Mar/Apr and saying 'please tell me which of these is most suitable'.

The chance of getting 2 weeks would be zero.

The chance of winning a PG and getting a settlement would be excellent.

It's a statutory requirement not an optional thing.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3313956 28-Nov-2024 21:26

There's definitely red flags here. The question is whether it's best to continue trying to work with the employer to use your legal rights.

Option B is basically to get as much 'idiot employer BS' as you can in writing, and essentially go down the personal grievance route. This could involve demanding what you're entitled to until they fire you illegally. It's a shitty route to go down and you're still required to act in good faith.

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SomeoneSomewhere

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#3313957 28-Nov-2024 21:27

If the other employees are also really upset with the boss, talking to a union could be an option. Unfortunately we have really poor unionisation laws currently.

Handle9

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#3313958 28-Nov-2024 21:30

You don't need to be fired to initiate a PG but of course with employers who wilfully ignore their obligations it can go that way.

The way I would approach it is request a meeting with the employer and go through their legal obligations in a calm way and say you want to take your entitlement. Don't be emotional, just redirect the conversation back to the law.

Follow it up with an email. It'll go one of two ways from there.

lxsw20

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#3313963 28-Nov-2024 22:02

1101:

Not a good time to try & find a job, in a recession .

That doesn't mean there is zero chance of finding something - no harm in looking/putting your CV in for stuff.

Also while you should take your leave and your well entitled to it, if you do leave they have to pay it out so its not like you just lose it as such.

SepticSceptic

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#3313972 28-Nov-2024 22:44

If the management are running that thin, and staff are stressed,
then I suspect an insolvency or similar coming soon.

What happens if some one has taken a week of sick leave?

Cash in as much annual leave as you can, because that's real money in the hand.

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