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OldGeek

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#321497 22-Aug-2025 13:04
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From time to time I volunteer to help elderly people with technology issues.  I am not a professional and do this as a volunteer at the local charity-owned retirement village.  

 

The most common issue is with access to Google/iCloud accounts where the owner has lost their record of passwords.  This is what 'Forgot Password' is for, except that to access this requires retrieval of a verification code from an email address or cell phone.  For good reasons the email address and phone number are not listed in full.

Recovery email addresses and phone numbers can be well out of date.  For elderly folks it may be a relatives email account or phone number from years ago, who helped them set up the account.  So is there any way forward when access to recovery emails/phones is no longer possible?  I cant think of any way forward that is not vulnerable to fraudulent misuse.





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TAKid
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  #3406515 22-Aug-2025 16:08
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It also helps if the recovery email is not the email that you have forgotten the password for, as we found we had done when we set the accounts up years ago.




wellygary
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  #3406522 22-Aug-2025 17:03
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TAKid:

 

It also helps if the recovery email is not the email that you have forgotten the password for, as we found we had done when we set the accounts up years ago.

 

 

Any system worth its salt shouldn't allow a doom loop like that to get parsed,

 

but clients will be clients and software testing is usually seen an after thought...


richms
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  #3406523 22-Aug-2025 17:08
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If they do not have recovery codes and cant access the alternative contact details that they provided and did not update then the account is as good as gone without being a paying customer of the place.

 

This is by design and any promises of anyone to recover the account is a scam.

 

You can also save your icloud password in your notes on your phone which are synced to the icloud and then put your phone thru the washing machine - again, if you have never paid apple for anything on that account they have no way to validate you are real and reset it, so then you get to make a new icloud and lose the few things that were in the meager backup space given.

 

 





Richard rich.ms



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  #3406525 22-Aug-2025 17:21
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wellygary:

 

Any system worth its salt shouldn't allow a doom loop like that to get parsed,

 

but clients will be clients and software testing is usually seen an after thought...

 

 

Even big companies get it wrong. I remember a post from years ago where someone got an alert from Apple about activity on someone else's account (because that person had mistyped their email address). There was a "this wasn't me" link, and it asked for the answers to the other person's security questions!

 

Edit: Found it!


OldGeek

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  #3406527 22-Aug-2025 17:42
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Thanks for the responses so far and I recognise validity in all of them.  However when it comes to email address accounts it is not possible to simply move on and create another.  Who among us has a record of everyone ever that we have given out our email address to, to advise of the new one?  How do you counter the implication of rudeness to those who have sent you emails that you will never know about and therefore cannot reply to?

Yes the answer is the educate these oldies to use a paid service that includes support so that when these circumstances arise they can contact humans who can offer non-automated validation and support.  Are there any such providers and at what cost, for non-commercial customers?





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Quic referal code: https://account.quic.nz/refer/581402 and use this code for free setup: R581402E48MJA


alasta
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  #3406601 22-Aug-2025 20:06
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I think with iCloud you can recover access for a particular device by using another device that is already signed into the account. That might not help if grandma only has an iPad and doesn't need an iPhone/Mac/Apple Watch, but it's worth keeping in mind for situations where it might be a viable option. 


 
 
 
 

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SpartanVXL
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  #3406679 22-Aug-2025 21:12
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Google/microsoft accounts are dead in the water without recovery set up. You can even lose the account from two factor to a lost authenticator method like SMS if you lose the number, even if you have the right password.

 

 


gzt

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  #3406704 23-Aug-2025 00:11
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I just took a look at resetting my geekzone password. Uh oh.

richms
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  #3406705 23-Aug-2025 00:28
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SpartanVXL:

 

Google/microsoft accounts are dead in the water without recovery set up. You can even lose the account from two factor to a lost authenticator method like SMS if you lose the number, even if you have the right password.

 

 

Googles option to add mobile numbers automatically is a stupid thing they have which greatly increases the risk of that as it will add a sim that you just chuck in when roaming and decide that in 6 months time it wants to SMS you on that number for no good reason other than you have logged in from a different location.

 

Recovery codes are something that it will not even ask for and instead just keeps saying it wants to SMS to the old number.





Richard rich.ms

Batwing
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  #3406725 23-Aug-2025 08:32
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Or the Google deathloop of check your other device, but it's the device you've just factory reset and are trying to sign in to. 

 

Doesn't let you use backup code

 

Doesn't let you use SMS

 

Signed into multiple other devices but none of them are acceptable as 2FA apparently.


Gordy7
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  #3406726 23-Aug-2025 08:41
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When you have a simple PW structure and have a brain fade - on some sites Forget PW will not let you use a previous PW 😒

 

 





Gordy

 

My first ever AM radio network connection was with a 1MHz AM crystal(OA91) radio receiver.


 
 
 
 

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MadEngineer
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  #3406730 23-Aug-2025 08:55
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I had to take over a Google account the other day and it was super simple. A PIN was registered to the account which I knew.  I added my own email address for password recovery which only required the PIN, then going through the reset process I was able to use my own email address. 





You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

Batwing
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  #3406731 23-Aug-2025 09:10
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My problem with Google accounts is the flow seems to be different seemingly at random 

 

In my example above a fresh factory reset out of the blue unlocked the SMS option and I was away


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