Land Transport (Enforcement Powers) Amendment Bill and Vehicle Confiscation and Seizure Bill

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rickcrawley

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# 34640 26-May-2009 17:17

i like the bill in general except:

including a "cruising" clause which allows local authorities to prevent people repeatedly driving down certain streets.

it basically says if your car has a warrant and you keep driving down the same street and say you rev your engine loud, then it will be illegal. and if you have friends and just wanna drive up and down a certain street with your cars it would be illegal.

man, so we have to have reasons to do things thesedays. we can't just drive up and down a street repeatedly for no reason at all.

i wonder what the government will do next, stop people who walk down streets and ask them what reason they're walking down the street, and if there is no reason then tell them to go home.

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# 218083 26-May-2009 17:37

Something's gotta be done, they drive me nuts where I live.

I think this is gonna single out some people for the wrong reasons, for example, I know a guy who who is very responsible with cars, yet gets pulled over for wearing a beanie and driving a skyline (which isn't really "pimped" even).

However this trash that pointlessly trolls up and down streets showing off to slappers need to be crushed. I feel sorry for anybody who needs to assert them socially with some stuff they bought that goes "vroom vroom". I look forward to seeing some of these maggots cry over their toys. Grow up kids, you're not four, it's time to let the obsession with steering wheels and loud noises go.

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kingjj

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# 218094 26-May-2009 18:26

rickcrawley:
i wonder what the government will do next, stop people who walk down streets and ask them what reason they're walking down the street, and if there is no reason then tell them to go home.

Ah Police already have the power to stop someone walking down the street and ask them what they're up to. While technically they have to have a reason to do this, pratically they can and do stop people at random (having been stopped myself several times when I was younger).

As for the Bill, I'm all for it. Crusing is intimidating, annoying and frustrating to other road users. I have no time for boy racing antics and I hope the bill does change some attitudes, whether that be in younger "car enthusiasts" or older idiots.

BurningBeard

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# 218101 26-May-2009 18:49

kingjj:
As for the Bill, I'm all for it. Crusing is intimidating, annoying and frustrating to other road users. I have no time for boy racing antics and I hope the bill does change some attitudes, whether that be in younger "car enthusiasts" or older idiots.

I'm sick of getting yelled and scowled at randomly down Fitzgerald Ave in ChCh... sick of laying in bed every weekend hearing "Vrooooooooom psssshhhhhhhhhhhhhht squeeeeeeeeeal *#$%)($#% expletive)($#)(% vroooooooom pssssssssssssssssssth *sound of breaking glass* vroooooooooooooom"

They're not enthusiasts, they're vermin who shouldn't have been allowed to make these modifications or given a chance to drive like this in the first place.

By all means take pride in your gear, but there's s fine line between taste and trash, and racers fall into the latter.

The threat of fines that you can drag out for 10 forevers isn't enough of a deterrent. None of this PC crap, none of this hiding behind your "hobby" as an excuse.

Having mouthed off like I just did - I would like to see more effort being put into a decent outlet for these kids. We've got skate parks for kids - but something tells me half of the appeal of this racer culture is the "bad boy" factor of it.

I never liked the idea of banning racers from certain areas like the Mayor of ChCh has done - simply because it just shuffles it onto somewhere else.

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Fraktul

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# 218181 27-May-2009 00:20

BurningBeard:

Having mouthed off like I just did - I would like to see more effort being put into a decent outlet for these kids. We've got skate parks for kids - but something tells me half of the appeal of this racer culture is the "bad boy" factor of it.

Some sort of to the destruction death derby....Darwin awards on wheels. Must be to the death though, dont want tax payer dollars wasted on medical care.

meesham

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# 218207 27-May-2009 07:41

Disclaimer: I only moved to NZ 6 months ago so I'm not 100% up to speed on the laws for car modifications and probationary drivers, so some of what I say could be nonsense :)

I think there needs to be much stricter restrictions on modfications to cars, and actually enforce it. I'd copy the West Australian system, if the police find a vehicle that's not up to code they can either put a yellow sticker (defect notice) on it which gets placed on the top left of the windscreen, meaning it has to be up to code and taken over the pits for an inspection (by a govt inspector at cost to the owner) within 2 weeks. If it's completely not road worthy, it gets a red sticker meaning it has to be towed home. If the sticker is removed there's a $2000 fine, $5000 fine if you sell it before you get it inspected (if you don't want to get it inspected you have to hand back your license plates and it gets deregisted). The police have an unofficial policy that if the driver was being stupid or a prick they put the sticker on crooked, any police officer who sees a car with a crooked sticker is pretty much going to pull them over and give them a hard time and they'll have a lot more difficulty getting that vehicle passed at the inspection. A defect notice can be given for something as simple as an oil leak if the police chooses, or an overly loud exhaust or sound system. It's definitely not a perfect system but it gives the police a bit of power, and hopefully improves the quality of the cars on the road.

Other things I think the govt should look at:
* Make probationary drivers display P plates for the first 3 years after getting their license
* Don't allow drivers under 21 to have other people under 21 in their car after 7pm, if they get caught they get a fine and disqualified for a period of time
* Instead of crushing the cars, sell them (with the profits going to a charity) and charge the driver the cost of getting the car to legal spec - crushing cars seems like a complete waste to me.

I live in the Chch CBD and I know what's it like to put up with boyracers, but I think the legislation regarding stopping someone driving up and down a road is unnecessary - just get them with a defect notice for the loud exhaust or if they're doing burnouts or yelling abuse, for dangerous driving.

kingjj

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# 218221 27-May-2009 08:47

meesham: Disclaimer: I only moved to NZ 6 months ago so I'm not 100% up to speed on the laws for car modifications and probationary drivers, so some of what I say could be nonsense :)

I think there needs to be much stricter restrictions on modfications to cars, and actually enforce it. I'd copy the West Australian system, if the police find a vehicle that's not up to code they can either put a yellow sticker (defect notice) on it which gets placed on the top left of the windscreen, meaning it has to be up to code and taken over the pits for an inspection (by a govt inspector at cost to the owner) within 2 weeks. If it's completely not road worthy, it gets a red sticker meaning it has to be towed home. If the sticker is removed there's a $2000 fine, $5000 fine if you sell it before you get it inspected (if you don't want to get it inspected you have to hand back your license plates and it gets deregisted). The police have an unofficial policy that if the driver was being stupid or a prick they put the sticker on crooked, any police officer who sees a car with a crooked sticker is pretty much going to pull them over and give them a hard time and they'll have a lot more difficulty getting that vehicle passed at the inspection. A defect notice can be given for something as simple as an oil leak if the police chooses, or an overly loud exhaust or sound system. It's definitely not a perfect system but it gives the police a bit of power, and hopefully improves the quality of the cars on the road.

Other things I think the govt should look at:

* Make probationary drivers display P plates for the first 3 years after getting their license

* Don't allow drivers under 21 to have other people under 21 in their car after 7pm, if they get caught they get a fine and disqualified for a period of time

* Instead of crushing the cars, sell them (with the profits going to a charity) and charge the driver the cost of getting the car to legal spec - crushing cars seems like a complete waste to me.

I live in the Chch CBD and I know what's it like to put up with boyracers, but I think the legislation regarding stopping someone driving up and down a road is unnecessary - just get them with a defect notice for the loud exhaust or if they're doing burnouts or yelling abuse, for dangerous driving.

Police in New Zealand have similar powers in regards to stickering a non-compliant car. Police can issue a 'pink' sticker to a vehicle or a 'geen' sticker (I can't fully remember what each entails, to early in the morning), but effectively one states non-compliance with road legal standards while the other orders the vehicle off the road.

I'm not sure if the P plate idea would work here, but its worth considering. I'm not sure what it would change though? I would support all Restricted drivers carrying an 'R' plate on their car (system in NZ is Learners, Restricted, Full).

Discriminating based on age is not a good idea in my opinion, there are many legitimate reasons for drivers under 21 to have passengers under 21 after 7pm, and these drivers are likely to be fully licensed to carry passengers and drive at any time. When I was flatting at Uni I would reguraly make trips to the supermarket, to the pub, to other peoples houses etc, after 7pm with my flatmates all in one car... By grouping all under 21's together like that you would create an enforcement nightmare for the Police, and a transportation nightmare for parents and young people. It would be like the PR and Enforcement nightmare we had a few years ago when a system was introduced for older people to put "Not under 25" stickers on their cars, the idea being that if anyone who looked under 25 was seen driving the vehicle, the car would be stopped. Needless to say the system did not last long and is no longer enforced.

Crushing cars is considered to be a "last resort", the new legislation before parliament bolsters Police powers to seize cars and sell them to cover out standing fines and only crush them after three strikes at their discretion. The new law offers Police with a new tool for recovering fines owed (something which has long been a joke for those who owe large fines as the courts eventually wipe them), as well as tackling motorists who cruise, race or congregate without lawful reason (where before they had little power to stop them).

/ Opinion

bazzer

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# 218224 27-May-2009 08:56

I'm glad I live in a quiet suburban cul-de-sac :)

meesham

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# 218231 27-May-2009 09:27

kingjj:

Police in New Zealand have similar powers in regards to stickering a non-compliant car. Police can issue a 'pink' sticker to a vehicle or a 'geen' sticker (I can't fully remember what each entails, to early in the morning), but effectively one states non-compliance with road legal standards while the other orders the vehicle off the road.

Interesting, I wonder why they don't use this power more often. My other half's uncle is a cop, I need to pick his brain about this :)

kingjj:

I'm not sure if the P plate idea would work here, but its worth considering. I'm not sure what it would change though? I would support all Restricted drivers carrying an 'R' plate on their car (system in NZ is Learners, Restricted, Full).

Yep very true, the 'R' plate would be more applicable here. I think it would make it much easier for a police officer to spot an restricted driver doing something they shouldn't, and fine them if they get caught without their plates up. Unfortunately this also introduces another problem: I remember when I was a 'p' plater, when out with my mates if we spotted another 'p' plater (especially another car full of girls!), we sometimes did stupid things like race them off the lights.

kingjj:

Discriminating based on age is not a good idea in my opinion, there are many legitimate reasons for drivers under 21 to have passengers under 21 after 7pm, and these drivers are likely to be fully licensed to carry passengers and drive at any time. When I was flatting at Uni I would reguraly make trips to the supermarket, to the pub, to other peoples houses etc, after 7pm with my flatmates all in one car... By grouping all under 21's together like that you would create an enforcement nightmare for the Police, and a transportation nightmare for parents and young people. It would be like the PR and Enforcement nightmare we had a few years ago when a system was introduced for older people to put "Not under 25" stickers on their cars, the idea being that if anyone who looked under 25 was seen driving the vehicle, the car would be stopped. Needless to say the system did not last long and is no longer enforced.

You make very good points, others I've thought of are car pooling to university and designated sober drivers when going out. My thinking is it'll stop the younger hoons getting together causing problems, but it could also create more, I don't know :) Enforcing it would be easier with the 'R' plate system, although it's definitely not perfect.

kingjj:

Crushing cars is considered to be a "last resort", the new legislation before parliament bolsters Police powers to seize cars and sell them to cover out standing fines and only crush them after three strikes at their discretion. The new law offers Police with a new tool for recovering fines owed (something which has long been a joke for those who owe large fines as the courts eventually wipe them), as well as tackling motorists who cruise, race or congregate without lawful reason (where before they had little power to stop them).

It's a difficult problem. Sweden has one of the best ratios of police per capita and low crime rates, yet they still have problems with boy racers.

*sigh* One of the problems with working from home for myself is I tend to procrastinate thinking about stuff completely unrelated to my work :)

DataCraft

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# 218240 27-May-2009 09:48

You have to remember - having a license and driving on NZ roads is a privilege not a right.

BurningBeard

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# 218246 27-May-2009 10:17

My hobby, by nature, makes a LOT of noise (playing in bands). Out of courtesy for others I either rent a practice room in a non-residential area, or keep the jamming to a respectable time of day and don't jam for too long.

Unfortunately common courtesy isn't very common these days.

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rickcrawley

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# 218327 27-May-2009 14:31

yes the police can stop you in the street and ask what your doing, but if you say your just walking around, that is not illegal and the police can't tell you to go home.

if a person had a computer repair business operating from their house and different cars drove to their house every minute of the day, that would not be illegal, even though neighbours may not like the sound of cars coming every minute.
just because these cars will be driving around streets repeatedly to show off, will mean it will be illegal.

kingjj:
rickcrawley:
i wonder what the government will do next, stop people who walk down streets and ask them what reason they're walking down the street, and if there is no reason then tell them to go home.

Ah Police already have the power to stop someone walking down the street and ask them what they're up to. While technically they have to have a reason to do this, pratically they can and do stop people at random (having been stopped myself several times when I was younger).

As for the Bill, I'm all for it. Crusing is intimidating, annoying and frustrating to other road users. I have no time for boy racing antics and I hope the bill does change some attitudes, whether that be in younger "car enthusiasts" or older idiots.

nate

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# 218479 27-May-2009 22:25

meesham: Interesting, I wonder why they don't use this power more often. My other half's uncle is a cop, I need to pick his brain about this :)

There are a handful of cops (that I know of) that regularly participate in these forums - it'll be interesting to hear what they think of this new legislation.

MorphingDragon

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# 218741 28-May-2009 15:34

We really need more Pukekohe Car clubs. :D

Theres little trash on the streets compared to Papakura because they're all on the club's track.

cr250bromo

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# 218770 28-May-2009 16:02

rickcrawley: if a person had a computer repair business operating from their house and different cars drove to their house every minute of the day, that would not be illegal, even though neighbours may not like the sound of cars coming every minute.

Check with your local council, I believe in most council areas Home Businesses are not allowed to create more traffic than an ordinary residence would. So likely the neighbours could do something about that if there were cars arriving every minute of the day.

just because these cars will be driving around streets repeatedly to show off, will mean it will be illegal.

Why should people who live on a street put up with lots of noise and cars blasting down the same road over and over simply because people want to show off? Would it be OK with you if I drove my car down your road again and again bouncing off the rev limiter in 1st gear when you were trying to sleep?

There are plenty of places you can go to enjoy your car that aren't going to annoy people.

rickcrawley

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# 218866 28-May-2009 17:50

ok lets change it to this:

if a charitable person fixed computers for free from his house and had cars driving to his house every minute that would be legal. it would not be a business because he is not paid and does the work for free.
if the neighbours complain to the council the council won't be able to do anything because it's not a business, so the neighbours will have to put up with it or move house.
answering your other question, i can sleep with any amount of noise if i'm really tired and if i'm not then i won't sleep.

portunus:
rickcrawley: if a person had a computer repair business operating from their house and different cars drove to their house every minute of the day, that would not be illegal, even though neighbours may not like the sound of cars coming every minute.

Check with your local council, I believe in most council areas Home Businesses are not allowed to create more traffic than an ordinary residence would. So likely the neighbours could do something about that if there were cars arriving every minute of the day.

just because these cars will be driving around streets repeatedly to show off, will mean it will be illegal.

Why should people who live on a street put up with lots of noise and cars blasting down the same road over and over simply because people want to show off? Would it be OK with you if I drove my car down your road again and again bouncing off the rev limiter in 1st gear when you were trying to sleep?

There are plenty of places you can go to enjoy your car that aren't going to annoy people.

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