Leave 12 yr olds at mall....

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xpd

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#40600 1-Sep-2009 12:42

Something my boss asked me...

Is there a law / legal age that controls when you can leave your kids at a mall on their own ? I know to leave them at home along its 14.

He asked as 1) Hes not a Kiwi so isnt upto play with all NZ law (dont think anyone is really)
2) He let his 12yr old son goto the mall with his 12yr old mates.

Nothing happened but my boss has since had a "nice chat" with one of the other parents who said he should not have let the kids go and is upset about it all, letting 12 yr olds stay at a mall on their own. My boss did not know no other adults were going to be there or had a problem without an adult not being there.

Is there any sort of legaslation that says you cant do this, or would it be up to the mall operator to enforce their own ruling about it ? (Seeing as its their property and if anything happened to those 12 yr olds the mall would be held responsible ?)

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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#252214 1-Sep-2009 13:25

Good question! From personal experience I have been told that children must always be supervised while under 14, both at home and in public, however I know of no law that specifically stipulates this (looking forward to being corrected as I know there will be). I know that last year we successfully got two boys (9 & 11) taken into CYF custody after the 9 year old was caught stealing several times after his mother dropped him in the central city for the day with no money, cellphone or lunch. She was also successfully prosecuted for this, but I'm not sure under which legislation (child endangerment, failure to supervise or something?).

As for Malls, most malls in Chch do not have policies on unattended children, however if any of them cause any issues the parents or Police are always contacted. During busy times/on teacher only days etc. several malls also have community constables/truancy officers patrolling them who are not usually impressed with unattended children.

Good parenting says supervise youths in Public areas, common sense says this is not always possible!

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Adamal

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#252215 1-Sep-2009 13:27

Man, I remember back in the day when I was 12, me and my mate always used to ride our bikes around New Lynn. Never had any problems.

Soon parents will be asking Tony Stark to start making the kids version of the Iron Man suit.

Bee

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#252223 1-Sep-2009 13:57

I guess the concern these days is that you might go to the mall and not come back... or end up in hospital or something...
I dont know about 12 but certainly at 14 I used to hang out at the malls with friends and bike around the neighbourhood and all the local schools (they wont let you do that anymore! :( )

it probably is slightly illegal? probably was illegal then too but I guess it comes down to the kids and their parents attitudes and morals etc and like most laws - if no one cares/complains then you will be fine and its all good...

Doing your best is much more important than being the best.

wellygary

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#252226 1-Sep-2009 14:03

"In New Zealand, it is against the law to leave children under 14 without making reasonable provision for their care and supervision. What is considered ‘reasonable’ also takes into account the circumstances under which children are left alone and the length of time they are alone. Parents are required to assess all the circumstances and make sure that any child left alone is safe and in no danger"

http://www.cyf.govt.nz/1714.htm

xpd

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#252230 1-Sep-2009 14:08

Ah thanks Wellygary :)

Thanks everyone else for your input :)

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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stevenz

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#252233 1-Sep-2009 14:11

I used to cruise around all over the place when I was 10, never had any problems and never got into any trouble. Then again, I was never the type to make a nuisance of myself, and there seemed to be a lot less of the bad element floating around.

That said, Johnsonville in the 80s was hardly a breeding ground for 1-percenters.

karatekid6666

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#252237 1-Sep-2009 14:20

xpd, here is the legislation:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1981/0113/latest/DLM53535.html?search=ts_all%40act%40bill%40regulation_Summary_resel&p=1

"Every person is liable to a fine not exceeding $2,000 who, being a parent or guardian or a person for the time being having the care of a child under the age of 14 years, leaves that child, without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child, for a time that is unreasonable or under conditions that are unreasonable having regard to all the circumstances."

Tell your boss that he/she give the child a cellphone and some money to buy some food, so the authorities don't think you dumped the child at the mall with no way of contacting their parents and so they don't think they didn't have a way to eat when they're hungry.

I'm surprised that sometimes the police enforce this law because hundreds of thousands of under 14 year old schoolchildren walk to and from school everyday without their parents or supervision, yet the police don't seem to be prosecuting all these kids parents.

wellygary

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#252243 1-Sep-2009 14:38

I guess the magic words in here are "for a time that is unreasonable", Meaning that it is likely the walking to school for 30 mins or so, would be seen as being reasonable and thus not punishable under this reg.

karatekid6666

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#252261 1-Sep-2009 15:21

"for a time that is unreasonable" is only part of the law.

the other part is "without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child" so a child walking to and from school without their parents or anyone else walking with them would probably be "without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child" but i guess the cops don't enforce it because they know the impact such a court ruling will have on hundreds of thousands of parents.

corksta

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#252285 1-Sep-2009 16:23

karatekid6666: "for a time that is unreasonable" is only part of the law.

the other part is "without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child" so a child walking to and from school without their parents or anyone else walking with them would probably be "without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child" but i guess the cops don't enforce it because they know the impact such a court ruling will have on hundreds of thousands of parents.

You're telling wellygary that it's "only part of the law" yet you need to examine the entire section yourself before making ridiculous comments about why the police don't prosecute parents for allowing their children to walk to school - wellygary has hit the nail on the head.

When referring to children walking to school, the test of whether a prosecution is warranted or not falls under: without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child, for a time that is unreasonable or under conditions that are unreasonable having regard to all the circumstances.

Sure, a child walking to school might be unsupervised but that's where the law says you need to consider what is reasonable, and it's always an objective test rather than a subjective test. Making a child walk two hours to go to school would be seen as unreasonable, making them walk to school while it's snowing outside and they're only wearing shorts and a t-shirt might also be seen as unreasonable conditions, but as it says "having regard to all the circumstances".

So your average parent who lets their child walk to school on a normal day is not breaking the law, making your argument about how "the cops don't enforce it because they know the impact such a court ruling will have on hundreds of thousands of parents" stupid because when having regard to all the circumstances no law is broken.

Dratsab

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#252384 1-Sep-2009 19:48

Actually corksta, wellygary glanced slightly off to the side, but you've hit the nail fairly and squarely on the head.

karatekid6666

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#252567 2-Sep-2009 13:58

so xpd is your boss still going to let his 12yo go to the mall alone?

and i wonder what 'reasonable' and 'unreasonable' means? different cops may have different views and different judges may have different views.

euanandrews

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#252575 2-Sep-2009 14:15

Ugh.

Its like walking on eggs.

If we try to protect our children from every situation, they will be unprepared in later life for the real world.

Political correctness gone mad (again)

Many times I have seen toddlers running around the sreets unsupervised...that concerns me, makes me think very little of their parents...but a 12yo going to the mall, with their freinds...come on!

I've got no time for the Sue Bradford's of this world.

Meh.
Rant over, moving on.

xpd

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#252576 2-Sep-2009 14:18

Hehe... I mentioned to him about a potential $2000 fine and he went "eep" and will be thinking twice about letting the kid out :)

Just buy the kids a WoW account... theyll stay home.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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Snackos

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#252611 2-Sep-2009 15:31

I used to swim at the school pool by myself at 10 during the weekends. Never came close to having any problems. Good old days. Pay 50 cents, then pay another 50 cents for a bag of lollies from the little shop.

Poor kids are growing up with no life skills at all thanks to the nanny state. Not to mention a boring childhood of hand holding.

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