New owner hasn't transferred ownership

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vinnieg

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Topic # 59684 9-Apr-2010 12:05

Hmmm, having a slight issue

Had a really really really annoying sale on Trademe, guy was a total knob, made us pick him up from airport, used buy now within 15 minutes of putting car on Trademe etc....

Asked me lots of stuff like "has cambelt been changed" "yes at proper intervals, next one is due at 190-200k" blah blah blha

Now he hasn't changed over the ownership.

I've rang LTSA, checked and no change. So if I don't receive a response from him, should I report it stolen? AS I don't want to incur any fines and want the car off my hands.

He also didn't have it checked, cost us money to get him from the airport, car was $2900 no res, $3200 buy now.

We wasted money on:
Cost of getting to airport to pick him up
Taking time off work to sell car
Filling 3/4 of the tank with gas(wouldn't go the whole way, since it was in no way part of the sale)

Basically after all costs we only made $2900 whch was the reserve, when the car was worht a lot more.

Guy also complained about:
Clutch shudder(never noticed it myself) which meant in his mechanics eyes, needing a full new clutch. YEAH RIGHT.

Broken aerial. which could be seen in photos.

Being the good sort, I have offered to pay half the aerial cost, provided he supply me with an invoice. But told him to take the clutch issue to a Toyota Dealer, because I'm sure that his mechanic is trying to rip him off.

But anyway, if he doesn't change ownership, what are my powers?

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

wallop

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Reply # 316489 9-Apr-2010 12:12

As I understand it you have no powers. The LTSA is registration not ownership. If he paid you he owns it, so you can't report it stolen. That's why the LTSA say to see proof of registration transfer before handing over the car. Although I wonder if you could just go and de-register the car. Then he won't be able to get a new warrant. You would still be liable for fines though.

vinnieg

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Reply # 316490 9-Apr-2010 12:16

Yeah that's true, deregistering is the next option, got hold of him finally, will have to see what happens from here. He says he's been busy, so I guess that's ok ish. If i get any fines though I'll definitely raise them with the Police and get them put onto his record, not ours :)

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

wallop

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Reply # 316494 9-Apr-2010 12:23

At least if he gets any speed camera fines you can request the photo and then gives his details to the police.

robbyp

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Reply # 316496 9-Apr-2010 12:24

You made a mistake. You shouldn't have handed over the car until he had shown you proof of transfer. It's car seling 101

Ragnor

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Reply # 316499 9-Apr-2010 12:33

Yes for future reference to best protect yourself you're supposed to do the change of ownership before handing over the vehicle.

garvani

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Reply # 316500 9-Apr-2010 12:34

I remember seeing a fairly identical thread on geekzone a few months / year ago, where a guy had done the same thing.. I beleive as long as you have sent in your half of the change of ownership forms then your not liable for any fines etc.

alasta

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Reply # 316501 9-Apr-2010 12:39

vinnieg: If i get any fines though I'll definitely raise them with the Police and get them put onto his record, not ours :)

If you can provide substantial evidence to the fine issuer, whether it be the police or a terrirtorial authority, that you were not in command of the vehicle at the time the fines were incurred then you may get away. However, if there is a shadow of doubt then you as the registered owner will be liable.

As someone else has pointed out you have made an error of judgement in handing over possession of the vehicle without first getting confirmation of the buyer having changed the ownership. It is clearly stated on the NZTA web site that this is a no-no.

HiJinx

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Reply # 316505 9-Apr-2010 12:43

If you have sent your half to the LTSA and he hasn't, after a certain amount of time the LTSA will contact him requesting his part.

Shaun Fisher - www.geekstore.co.nz

E: shaun[at]geekstore[dot]co[dot]nz
P: 0800894508 F: 0800897451

timestyles

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Reply # 316510 9-Apr-2010 12:50

Please go to Trademe's website, click on the community, then motoring, then search for the word ownership and date all dates. There are a number of threads about this issue.

As Robbyp said, its Selling101.

vinnieg

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Reply # 316511 9-Apr-2010 12:58

robbyp: You made a mistake. You shouldn't have handed over the car until he had shown you proof of transfer. It's car seling 101

Actually I did do this, but he didn't pay the $9.50 or take the filled in form, I've still got all his details. He filled in the form, it's up to him to take it to the post office?

But yes, definitely will do it before selling the car next time. As it wasn't my car, I didn't take the usual steps

Also I think Trademe should make it clearer here for prospective sellers:
Paperwork
Tear off the bottom portion of your Certificate of Registration. Fill in the new owner's details and sign it, then send it off to the Transport Registry Centre, Private Bag, Palmerston North within seven days of selling the vehicle. Give the remaining portion to the new owner. The buyer must fill out an LTSA MR13 form and pay the $9.20 change of ownership fee. You can get these forms from any Post Office.

Doesn't say anything about doing it before you hand over the car?

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

vinnieg

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Reply # 316513 9-Apr-2010 13:01

But yeah, thanks guys, will definitely do it when it comes to selling my car in the near future

Should have really mentioned above, that is was on behalf of a mate :) i was the 3rd party in it :)

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

rscole86

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Reply # 316625 9-Apr-2010 16:54

If the person is caught driving the vehicle, and the officer calls comms to do a vehicle/person check, then there will be a record that they are associated with that vehicle. This has no bearing on who owns the vehicle as far as the LTSA is concerned.

In regards to the photo tickets, whether redlight or speeding, you can inform the police that the new owner has not submitted their forms, and request a copy of the photo. A lot of the time you can see who is driving the vehicle. You can fill out a transfer of liability form and provide the details to the best of your knowledge, and the police will then pursue that person in regards to paying the fine.

Ultimately, as alasta pointed out, then you are responsible until the correct process has been completed. If you take it to court, as the police rejected your transfer of liability, then based on the photo and your form then you may be able to prove you were not driving, and the other person is now the owner. But, as was pointed out above, it would be in the best interest of the former owner, to degister the vehicle. That way if the new owner ever got pulled over they would get a $200 ticket for driving an unregistered vehicle. (Which you cannot do.)

Reporting it as 'stolen' may be an option however. Best bet is to inform the LTSA and just let them know the status of the vehicle.

lxsw20

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Reply # 316626 9-Apr-2010 16:57

The cost you incured, well thats just part of selling a car...just accept it.

With relation to the clutch, it was up to him to inspect it before purchase.

If it does have a shudder it will either need a new clutch or flywheel skim (most likley both), not alot else it would be...Not that that is your problem.

When I sold my car, I took the guy to VTNZ and did change of ownership there and then, I even paid for it. $9.20 is cheap to save any future hassles. You can even do the whole thing online now.

And you can not deregister the car, you don't own it. Just because the car is in your name does not imply ownership.

Dratsab

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Reply # 316671 9-Apr-2010 20:43

The guy has paid for it so reporting it as stolen is not an option. If you've properly filled out and submitted your half of the change of registration, LTNZ (or whatever they call themselves these days) will have a record of it.

Pop into your local police station, explain the situation and see if they'll do a check to see if you're still listed as the registered owner.

savag3

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Reply # 316682 9-Apr-2010 21:59

One aspect which hasn't been covered here yet is the impact of continuous licensing. This means that until the new owner has completed the transfer and paid the $9.20 the current registered owner is liable for any unpaid licensing (registration) fees. If the licence has expired by say 3 months when the change of ownership is done the previous owner recieves a bill in the mail for the 3 months. If the new owner dosen't complete the process before the registration lapses (12 months after expiry) the car will be deregistered and NZTA will send you a bill for a year's fees. If these aren't paid they will send it to Baycorp.