Condensation and mould help needed

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MooPoo

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#63852 3-Jul-2010 12:46

Hi

We are renting a house in Christchurch and have noticed that all the windows have double glazing, which we thought was great, but now we notice that all the windows have bad condensation problems and even mould growing at the bottom of some of them.

We have never had this problem before, as we have moved here from Australia.

We have a gas heater that we run pretty much constantly in the winter nights and days, I dont know if this is impacting on it or not.

As I said, we are renting so getting a big system installed probably isnt going to happen (but would love to hear about solutions to present to the agents incase).

Is it just a matter of buying a dehumidifier for the house and running that as well?

How many would we need for the house? it is roughly 19 squares.

If anyone has solutions for this problem we would appreciate it as we are fearful of mould growing near our kids heads on the windowsills.

I would assume it has been a problem in this house for a while as in the bathrooms the walls have small holes where the moisture has got in and the wood windows surrounds are all stained on most of the windows.

I think this is dangerous but dont know what to do about it.

Thanks

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#347487 3-Jul-2010 12:52

Check this other discussion too: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=62686

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sbiddle

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#347488 3-Jul-2010 13:03

When you say gas heating do you mean a portable gas heater?

If so that's the bulk of your problem, these things pump huge amounts of moisture into the air (along with plenty of dangerous fumes)

MooPoo

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#347496 3-Jul-2010 13:34

No, the heater is in the wall but hooked up to a couple of large gas bottles out the front of the house.

heavenlywild

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#347499 3-Jul-2010 13:46

Dehumidifier for sure. Can't go without one in NZ.

Semaj

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#347503 3-Jul-2010 14:32

Hi Moo Poo,
yes that condensation is a pain. Is the lpg heater a portable one? Like not vented to the outside of the house.? Every kg of lpg that is burnt gives of roughly one litre of water! Imagine boiling a litre pot of water on the stove untill it has all evaporated. That's a lot of steam in the room. We got one that is vented to the outside. Virtually no moisture in the room now. You will probably have to use a de-humidifier in the bed room though. Hope this helps.
Cheers.

JimmyLizar

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#347628 4-Jul-2010 10:04

Some wall mounted gas heaters are vented to the exterior of the house and some are not. Don't assume that just because you heater is fixed to the wall that it is vented.

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#347632 4-Jul-2010 10:19

I expect Jimmy is right, you'll need to check about the venting of that heater.

If your pad is rented then what about giving the landlord a call? If it's damaging their property then they should know about. There are, I believe, a number of Govt-funded insulation packages around that may be applicable to 'your' house that the landlord could take advantage of. This would potentially assist with your/their current problem and result in a generally warmer house as well so I'd view it as an overall plus.

Another thing to consider is that condensation is a result of a number of factors but it essentially comes from air that is saturated and unable to hold that amount of water when it gets colder (warmer air can hold even more water without condensing). If you were to perhaps open your windows at strategic parts of the day this, along with a decent humidifier, would make a significant impact on the problem. If you're unsure (and since this is Geekzone after all, time to get another toy!) a cheap indoor/outdoor humidy meter would give you an idea when to open/close windows...

Cheers, P.

manta

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#347776 4-Jul-2010 19:54

The only way you'll get rid of mould and moisture is to replace the air in your house which is cold and damp with air that is warm and dry.

You can dry the air by opening windows during the day to get dry air in (for free) or run a dehumidifier (expensive) and then use a dry source of heat to warm the air.

You will greatly reduce the condensation by prob not eliminate it, especially in the bedroom(s) where you pump out moisture all night long.

Batman

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#347812 4-Jul-2010 22:51

re: 1st post

you need to open windows at at least 2 ends of the house 24hrs for circulation (there are 2 notches open at the 1st notch). see how many needs openeing usually only one at each end for us is 100% fine

Jaxson

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#347853 5-Jul-2010 08:50

freitasm: Check this other discussion too: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=62686

and maybe some content that applies here too.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=63467

Seriously though, 1st stop has to be finding the source of the moisture. Is the bathroom and kitchen ventilated outside with extraction fans/rangehoods?

And is the gas fire flued to the outside?
-To check this go outside and see if there is a 'mushroom' type metal fitting on the wall outside in line with where the heater is inside? Or alternatively is there a vent sticking up through the roof above where the gas heater is inside?

If there is not a flue on your gas heater you really need to get that looked at or use another method to heat your space. Landlords technically only have to offer you one method of heating from memory. Unflued gas heaters are banned in some countries but are still legal here. Burning gas produces heat, but also lots of water as well as exhaust gases from the burning process. If you have no joy getting the heater addressed, the house ventilated (at least in the bathroom and kitchen rangehood), have a mould problem and kids involved, then I'd personally be looking for another place to live.

MooPoo

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#348699 7-Jul-2010 11:54

Ok here is a summary of my situation - in case I havent made it clear before this.

We have a LPG heater in the loungeroom that is in the wall and is flued outside. We have another in the hallway but Im not sure if it is flued outside or not.

The one in the loungeroom is going pretty much 24/7 with the thermostat set at around 17 during the night.

The hallway heater is on all evening and turned off during the night.

The front bedrooms that seem to be suffering from the mould worst have the doors closed at night because the bloody cat gets in there and tries to take over the bed of my 8yr old if we leave the door open.

There are water drips from most of the windows in the house. Well to be exact, the water drips seem to be from the top of the window frame. There is bad condensation on the actual glass on most bedrooms (the cat likes it as he licks the glass for a drink).

The problem with the bedrooms is that we leave the doors open until bedtime to try and warm the rooms but at bedtime the doors are closed and it gets really cold in these bedrooms.

I know I hear everyone saying "get rid of the cat" but its not really an option.

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wellygary

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#348704 7-Jul-2010 12:06

I suspect that the Gas heater in the hall way is not flued, It will be throwing about a litre of moisture an hour into the air.

The best initial solution is to put a dehumidifier in either the hall or the bedrooms. This will have the added impact of making the area warm up faster as air with lots of moisture is harder to heat.

Long term I would look at changing the hall heater to either a flued on, or a heatpump.

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#348711 7-Jul-2010 12:24

Does the heater in the lounge have glass between you and the flame? I have seen some that are flued but do not have glass so still allow some moisture into the house. If there is glass that that rules it out from being a contributer.
As Wellygary says get a dehumidifier ASAP but also look at replacing the hall heater either with a flued gas heater or a electric heater.

Edit sorry forgot it is a rental.. Dehumidifier is your only real option.

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AndrewTD

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#348712 7-Jul-2010 12:28

I suspect that you may find the source of the moisture in the bedrooms is simply the exhalation of the occupants.
I have similar severe condensation in the bedrooms of my house. I only have "dry" sources of heat - no gas at all.
When the outside air is very cold, we get heaps of condensation on the bedroom windows.

I haven't fixed it yet.

I was hoping that changing my very old aluminium window frames for modern double glazed units would solve it.

But given that your windows are double glazed and you still have condensation, maybe that won't solve my problems :(.

Given your place is rented, I think portable dehumidifiers are probably your only realistic option. I think a better technical fix is to install heatpumps. I understand they would probably eliminate condensation. I'd be interested to hear from others whether aircon units (heatpumps) really do fix condensation issues.

kind regards Andrew TD

Jaxson

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#348732 7-Jul-2010 13:32

AndrewTD: I think a better technical fix is to install heatpumps. I understand they would probably eliminate condensation. I'd be interested to hear from others whether aircon units (heatpumps) really do fix condensation issues.

Aircon will dehumidify, but I think you'll find that this technically only happens during the cooling mode, which you will not be utilising during winter anyway.

Hallway gas heaters will 99% of the time not be flued. Stop using them right away! The moisture and exhaust gases from these are two things you do not want especially near rooms where you sleep.

Dehumidifiers only work effectively if the room is warm, so leaving them on overnight with no additional heating will see them in defrost mode most of the time.

As has been mentioned above, rooms with occupants will get humid at night due to breathing. Having the doors shut will not help.

Options to prevent condensation are based around:
a) removing humidity sources (can't take out the people breathing),
b) reducing the humidity through ventilation, either forced ventilation systems (hrv brands etc) or a window open, (both will cool the room during winter), or
c) removing the cold points at which warm humid air will lead to condensation on contact, which is where double glazing comes into it.

Immediate options, or for rental purposes etc, are:
Get another form of heating in the rooms/hallway if doors are left open.
Ventilate the house as much as possible/practical during the day for free.
Get a dehumidifyer.
Ensure major humidity sources are dealt with, ie unflued gas heaters, windows open at least in bathrooms/kitchens during steamy periods, but ideally extraction fans are ducted outside.

If still no joy, then honestly move somewhere else and give your rent to someone else.

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