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Topic # 86118 1-Jul-2011 09:10
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Hi All,

I just got a letter from trademe stating that items with foreign plugs cannot be sold on trademe even with a plug adaptor.

I have taken a look at the applicable links and can't find anything on those sites (energysafety.govt.nz) about electrical plug guidelines (although it is probably there somewhere)

I purchased a cellphone for my wife from a retailer in Auckland who provided me with a GST receipt and a foreign plug and adaptor. Effectively this means that I cannot sell this item on trademe now. Where does this leave the parallel imported market? If it is illegal to sell these items on trademe then surely it must be illegal to sell them retail?

Can anyone with more idea about electricity than I do shed some light on the subject?

Cheers, Matt. 




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  Reply # 488161 1-Jul-2011 09:30
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I got the same email yesterday and a quick search of Trademe shows many items been sold with the adaptors

John



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  Reply # 488163 1-Jul-2011 09:35
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I think it is the overreaction to the paper heater incident that was in the herald.

I can't see how they could stop 110/240 devices




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  Reply # 488166 1-Jul-2011 09:37
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I agree that it's a pain especially if you have genuine CE certified adapters and plugs. But how expensive is a new charger? I know there are apparently "Genuine" HTC and Samsung chargers on Trademe for about $10 each.

Everytime I sell a phone that I get from overseas, I just buy one of those and put it in the package. And being that most phones including most of the new Nokias are coming with Micro USB(Apple excluded) just get one of the cheap micro-usb chargers and bundle that in?




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  Reply # 488168 1-Jul-2011 09:43
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I think the relevant provisions are part 6 of the Electricity Safety Regulations (brace yourself - official legalese link here)

http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/DLM2763501.html?search=ts_all%40act%40...

If you take a look, it mentions that...

A used appliance that is sold or offered for sale is deemed to be electrically safe if, at the time it is sold or offered for sale,?
(a) it is tested, inspected, and tagged in accordance with AS/NZS 5761; or
(b) it has been disabled and marked in accordance with AS/NZS 4701; or
(c) in the case of a used electrical medical device, it is tested and marked in accordance with AS/NZ 3551.

Most likely, the foreign device does not comply with these regulations. Specifically, I'd bet NZS 5761 demands that an angled three point plug capable of passing 240VAC at 50Hz is required to pass.

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  Reply # 488169 1-Jul-2011 09:43
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hairy1: Hi All,

I just got a letter from trademe stating that items with foreign plugs cannot be sold on trademe even with a plug adaptor.

I have taken a look at the applicable links and can't find anything on those sites (energysafety.govt.nz) about electrical plug guidelines (although it is probably there somewhere)

I purchased a cellphone for my wife from a retailer in Auckland who provided me with a GST receipt and a foreign plug and adaptor. Effectively this means that I cannot sell this item on trademe now. Where does this leave the parallel imported market? If it is illegal to sell these items on trademe then surely it must be illegal to sell them retail?

Can anyone with more idea about electricity than I do shed some light on the subject?

Cheers, Matt. 



Matt, You have confused Trademe's rules with the Law of NZ.

Just because Trademe say they will not allow you to sell it, does not mean it is illegal to sell it ( they are a private company and make their own rules)

After having a quick flick through the electrical rules, I can see why Trademe have gone down this path,
Basically the regs say that anything that has a NZ/Aust Standard plug on it by default needs to comply with NZ's electrical safety regs, ( and anyone putting a NZ plug on an overseas appliance, can only do so if the appliance complies)

So instead of having a huge list of appropriate certification that are acceptable to trademe ( EU, UK etc), they are simply saying that it must meet NZ standards and the way this is determined is by a brightline test of having a NZ standard plug on it, 

The full NZ specs are here
http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/latest/whole.html#DLM2763790

So if you comply with these an electrical appliance is legal to be sold in NZ, but this list would be  pain in the a$$ for trade me to police, so they have decided to use the NZ standard which is proxied by a NZ/Aust Plug.

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  Reply # 488184 1-Jul-2011 10:33
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I have a friend who works in an applicable ministry, she was saying a few weeks back that it's illegal to sell things without proper NZ plugs and wondered how parallel imported got away with it. I could probably find out the relevant law.




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  Reply # 488190 1-Jul-2011 10:41
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wellygary: Matt, You have confused Trademe's rules with the Law of NZ.


Well I'm confused. The way my email was worded made it out like I had done some wrong.

So to break it down REAL simple, so there is no confusion, by law (not by TM rules)...

If I buy a NEW cellphone, a NZ new/NZ market cellphone from a well known chain store retailer, then 1 month later put it on TM with accessories as bought new, then is that O.K by itself, or is EVERY single electrical item on TM meant to have a safety test tag on it? (and I'm not an online seller like a retailer... just someone disposing of items no longer of use to me).

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  Reply # 488217 1-Jul-2011 12:07
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There are some dodgy AC adaptors around.

I've had several AC Adaptors which leak large amounts of RF into the AM frequencies.

They are really annoying as I like to listen to radio sports which is AM in my area.




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  Reply # 488231 1-Jul-2011 12:24
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timmmay: I have a friend who works in an applicable ministry, she was saying a few weeks back that it's illegal to sell things without proper NZ plugs and wondered how parallel imported got away with it. I could probably find out the relevant law.


This has always been the case. Why do parallel import stores get away with it? Quite possibly because there is nobody actively enforcing of the law.


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  Reply # 488232 1-Jul-2011 12:26
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This issue was also discussed on here last year

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=61854

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  Reply # 488233 1-Jul-2011 12:27
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sbiddle:
timmmay: I have a friend who works in an applicable ministry, she was saying a few weeks back that it's illegal to sell things without proper NZ plugs and wondered how parallel imported got away with it. I could probably find out the relevant law.


This has always been the case. Why do parallel import stores get away with it? Quite possibly because there is nobody actively enforcing of the law.



Bingo.

Importers like the company I work for regulate themselves, parallel importers are *expected* to do the same.

Interesting that I have appliances, and phones that come with an international 2 flat, parallel pins and an adaptor for various markets, so in essence and adaptor, but these are directly from the NZ supplier, i.e. Vodofone etc, I wonder how Trade me reacts to that? 

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  Reply # 488235 1-Jul-2011 12:33
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dickytim:
Interesting that I have appliances, and phones that come with an international 2 flat, parallel pins and an adaptor for various markets, so in essence and adaptor, but these are directly from the NZ supplier, i.e. Vodofone etc, I wonder how Trade me reacts to that? 


Apple's airport Express and ipod USB charger also have a "universal" connection" and a "plug and play adapter" you stuff on depending on what country you are in...

I have a couple of wallwarts from on my WD HDDs that also require you to assemble the power plug before use...

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  Reply # 488239 1-Jul-2011 12:47
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It should be noted that universal travel adaptors (all-in-one adaptors) are illegal. This does not include the single type adaptors as long as they are tested to AS/NZS3122 and have an Australian or New Zealand approval number (marked on the adaptor).
An approval number looks like W1234 or N12345 or Q12345

Appliances only need to be approved depending on what category the are in.
Here is the list of items that must be approved in New Zealand. Some Austrlians states require approvals for many more appliances.
http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/templates/MultipageDocumentTOC____24886.aspx

As for other appliances, they need to be safe, and you can get them tested to satisfy yourself that this is the case.

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  Reply # 488244 1-Jul-2011 13:06
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sbiddle:
timmmay: I have a friend who works in an applicable ministry, she was saying a few weeks back that it's illegal to sell things without proper NZ plugs and wondered how parallel imported got away with it. I could probably find out the relevant law.


This has always been the case. Why do parallel import stores get away with it? Quite possibly because there is nobody actively enforcing of the law.



Legal issues aside for a moment, this wouldnt be particularly dangerous would it? Using a quality name brand USB phone charger (e.g. HTC, Samsung) designed with 100-250V input voltage through a certified adaptor to a NZ plug, while not ideal, doesnt seem particularly risky.

Those $5 usb wall chargers on tradme scare the bejesus out of me, i doubt they have any certification, thats the sort of thing that needs to be removed from TM

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  Reply # 488247 1-Jul-2011 13:31
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Not risky at all. The leading brand USB power supply will have been tested to the equivalent European (IEC) or Brittish standard (BSEN) by a reputable test laboratory.

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