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Topic # 87538 31-Jul-2011 21:20
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Hi

I just saw this video

http://youtu.be/donY4OuQ6yE

It shows that many of the people who work in Wall Street also Audit Wall Street..

Can such a thing happen in New Zealand..?

Thank you..




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gzt

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  Reply # 500266 1-Aug-2011 12:18
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NZ has a strong tradition of [an] independent public service which does not change each time the elected government changes. Promotions generally occur from within. There are some agency positions appointed by the NZ government but very few in comparison.

In the USA - the top couple of layers of public service jobs (especially those surrounding the president) are basically government political appointments and have a huge effect on spending priorities, who they buy from, what they will and won't regulate etc, etc. Combine that with political party funding from corporations, it is not hard to see how preferred candidates are chosen for these positions and a fair amount of exchange between the two.

In NZ corporations do not really have much of a show in effectively influencing the day to day operation of regulatory agencies to get the desired outcome, they must lobby the politicians directly.

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  Reply # 500282 1-Aug-2011 12:48
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To be honest I think this has already happened in New Zealand to some extent. 

Don Brash has about zero appeal to the New Zealand public but that didn't stop him from being Act Leader. He appeals to people who have a lot of money and want some more. To an extent this doesn't matter, he isn't going to Prime Minister any time soon. He may have some effect on NZ politics but not much. However, what effect he does have will reflect the wants of a few who want a second house, not the many who would like a house. 

The NZ public service is the same as most large organisations. The people at the top are well looked after, if required, at the expense of those below them or whatever it is they are supposed to be doing in the first place. This is because there are a reasonable number of 'tier two' execs who have to keep saying "the head of the department is worth X hundred thousand" because if they don't then they will never be worth X hundred thousand. No different from Telecom.

The public service may be politically independent but that means they usually work in the interest of the department, which means the interest of whoever is in charge of the department. In a lot of ways this is actually worse. See Christine Rankin for a good example of this going wrong. What usually happens is 'jobs for the boys', this is already happening in Christchurch. Government departments are not independent from usual human frailties. 

This idea of independence is based on the idea that the public service is apolitical but everybody has an agenda. Anybody think the Treasury isn't right wing? Anybody think that WINZ would advocate anything that would reduce the number of staff needed to process benefits? 

If you pretend not to have an agenda, things are usually worse. 

The sad truth is that every society has 'winners' and 'losers' and the winners don't do anything that disadvantages them, ever. Bloody revolution a la China or Soviet Russia changes who is in charge and changes who is at the bottom but those in the middle remain the same. 

The trick is getting a ticket on the gravy train. The first step to this is accepting the existence of said train. 

On the bright side by most measures human life is getting better as time goes on. The industrialised West is still where the poor are going, so it must be better then where ever they came from.

By that standard; being a 'looser' in 2011 New Zealand is a lot better than being anybody other than (maybe) King in a medieval society, or being anything other than head dictator in charge in much of Africa today for that matter. 

Crackedbycracku
 




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  Reply # 500301 1-Aug-2011 13:08
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crackrdbycracku: The trick is getting a ticket on the gravy train. The first step to this is accepting the existence of said train.?


I've accepted the existence of the gravy train. But I'm not getting fat off that. Whats the second step?

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  Reply # 500307 1-Aug-2011 13:17
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Not revelling the second step to anybody else until you are swimming in gravy.

Seriously, being ruthless enough to use whatever you have at your disposal to climb over others to get aboard.

We see a lot of incompetence at high levels because many at the top don't realise they are pushing a agenda, their own obviously. How many times do we hear politicians saying the other side is pursuing a policy for 'ideological reasons' as if their reasons are scientific or something.

'The System' as we know it relies on there being a large enough pool of people who will go to work and pay for the rest of society. They get to live in a reasonable society with lights and all but never really 'get fat'.

One option is to take a generational view, you may not get aboard but you can get your children closer. Your great great grand children may live high on the horse.

That whole 'bloody revolution' thing is another option.




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  Reply # 500469 1-Aug-2011 17:27
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crackrdbycracku: To be honest I think this has already happened in New Zealand to some extent. 

Don Brash has about zero appeal to the New Zealand public but that didn't stop him from being Act Leader. He appeals to people who have a lot of money and want some more. To an extent this doesn't matter, he isn't going to Prime Minister any time soon.
 


He still might get my vote as I'm sick of that other Party. You know the one the Labnat or is it Natlab.

The more I see what is happening in America the more I like NZ. I just want to vote for a party that's not a Socialist Baby sitter.

P.S. I like the gravey Train too. Thats why I'm working hard on developing my Web App and Website.




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  Reply # 500476 1-Aug-2011 17:37
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Yeah, me too.

I was a swing voter for about five min when Labour announced the Capital Gains Tax. This actually sounds like a good idea to me. National singing: 'We don't need another tax, we don't need another one' sounded as old and tired as Tina Turner.

There was not one bit of National press which gave a good reason against it.

Sadly, Brash has made the right pretty much a non-starter. The guy failed to beat Helen Clarke, even when the country had had enough of her.

If I made a run for parliament my promise would be this:

I will spend your tax dollars on nurses, doctors, teachers, cops and infrastructure. Outside of that you have the right to ask me 'What the hell do you think you are doing?' and I'll do my best to come up with an answer.

And I could actually keep that.

Crackedbycracku




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  Reply # 500477 1-Aug-2011 17:37
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Yeah, me too.

I was a swing voter for about five min when Labour announced the Capital Gains Tax. This actually sounds like a good idea to me. National singing: 'We don't need another tax, we don't need another one' sounded as old and tired as Tina Turner.

There was not one bit of National press which gave a good reason against it.

Sadly, Brash has made the right pretty much a non-starter. The guy failed to beat Helen Clarke, even when the country had had enough of her.

If I made a run for parliament my promise would be this:

I will spend your tax dollars on nurses, doctors, teachers, cops and infrastructure. Outside of that you have the right to ask me 'What the hell do you think you are doing?' and I'll do my best to come up with an answer.

And I could actually keep that.

Crackedbycracku




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  Reply # 500482 1-Aug-2011 17:46
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crackrdbycracku:
I will spend your tax dollars on nurses, doctors, cops and infrastructure.


I would so give those Nurses and Cops a pay rise. Especially Front line Cops..

But as far as those teachers go I would sack 90% of them... We don't have an education system and I got top of my school.. I was just a parrot.. Garbage in Garbage out...Absolutely no creativity taught. I know there a some fantastic teachers. But the exception proves the rule...




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  Reply # 500489 1-Aug-2011 18:04
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Yeah, I think there are plenty of things that need reforming.

I didn't say the teachers we have got. The problem with teaching is that it is about 'how' not 'what'. There is no one right way to get to the moon, for example, what matters is that you can think of different ways of doing things and achieve a goal. Exam based teaching kills this.

Also parents need to take some responsibility. My teachers could make the basic assumption when I came to school that I had eaten and slept in the last few hours, had lunch and that my parents cared about my education. Teachers today can't make those assumptions.

Fundamentally New Zealanders fail when it comes to organisational vision.

The last time a government actually stopped and said "What are we actually trying to achieve here?" was the fourth Labour Government.

We have a layer upon layer approach to policy making, just take what we did before and add another layer.

This has to stop. We have to actually ask: 'Why are we doing this? Is there a better way to achieve the goal? And what was the goal again?'




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  Reply # 501051 2-Aug-2011 21:31
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Possum:
crackrdbycracku:
I will spend your tax dollars on nurses, doctors, cops and infrastructure.


I would so give those Nurses and Cops a pay rise. Especially Front line Cops..

But as far as those teachers go I would sack 90% of them... We don't have an education system and I got top of my school.. I was just a parrot.. Garbage in Garbage out...Absolutely no creativity taught. I know there a some fantastic teachers. But the exception proves the rule...


I love that line.

It's almost as good as "Some of my best friends are black/Arab/Asian".

"We don't have an education system" - what does that even mean?

What is this rule which you are applying?

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  Reply # 501086 2-Aug-2011 22:45
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i thought most of the property in the cities was owned by the churches...




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  Reply # 501114 3-Aug-2011 00:39
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timslim:

It's almost as good as "Some of my best friends are black/Arab/Asian".


I believe in debating what you said is called a STRAW MAN ARGUMENT.

I will repeat. It's not an education system, its a factory. Thats why home schoolers win all the edu competitions.




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  Reply # 501265 3-Aug-2011 12:09
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Possum: [...] Thats why home schoolers win all the edu competitions.

Do they really? that would be really interesting. Ime, parents who choose to home school do tend to be educated above average themselves so that would tend would explain some of it, but it would still be a fascinating result. Got any references for that?



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  Reply # 501266 3-Aug-2011 12:14
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I did a Google and found this

Home School


I will look up the real stats soon... Which are amazing..








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  Reply # 501269 3-Aug-2011 12:19
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I'm not trying to take the stick to home schooling, or teachers for that matter, but I would sum up my experiences in the NZ educational system, including a year in teachers college like this:

What I learned in school I mostly learned in spite of my teachers not because of them. Home schooled kids may know more stuff than kids in school. What they lack is an understanding of how to get along with other kids, or anybody other than their parents.

The solution isn't actually that complicated. When I was in primary school, over 20 years ago, the goal for teacher student ratio was 1 teacher 20 students. It still is today and they haven't gotten any closer. It isn't complex but it is expensive.

You get what you pay for.

Here endeth Ye Olde Home Truths rant.




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