Getting fibre to those who will actually use it?

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Zeon

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#718156 16-Nov-2012 10:48

You would be crazy to host anything important on a GPON service. Even P2P fibre only comes with an 8 hour SLA and even that doesn't mean it would be fixed within 8 hours if it was something big.

Host at a datacentre with multiple fibre feeders, electricity etc.

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Nebbie

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#718233 16-Nov-2012 12:46

Zeon: You would be crazy to host anything important on a GPON service. Even P2P fibre only comes with an 8 hour SLA and even that doesn't mean it would be fixed within 8 hours if it was something big.

Host at a datacentre with multiple fibre feeders, electricity etc.

Agreed I have 2 VPS's hosted in NZ and Overseas I would not be a happy chappy if they were hosted in some random house for many reasons.

1.) Power (Residential area's low priority power) Auckland CBD gets high priority power. This makes me a happy chappy.
2.) I've never heard of a residential user having backup generator in case of catastrophic sustained power failure.
3.) Residential area's get Low SLA's when it comes to fixing faults.
4.) I fibre redundancy most likely is not going to exists.

Saying that for UFB a test environment is perfect.... But I would not think that VDSL is too slow.

In regards to the rant though I can understand fully the frustration of not getting UFB....
<RANT> I live in a UFB enabled area (Auckland CBD) however unable to get it and it looks like its been dumped into the too hard basket. I'm not expecting to be able to get UFB till around 2015-2017 </RANT>

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Kixtro

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#718270 16-Nov-2012 13:16

Some of you guys aren't getting the big picture here.

Businesses don't want to be spending lots of money co-locating servers in data centres, in New Zealand ESPECIALLY. You'll pay $200+ just for co-location, then add power and data transfers on top of that. (done my research).

I have had experience with businesses in my city that run servers from their premises. They use those servers for mail(web mail being accessed from home), RDC (connecting to work computers to view files etc at home) etc. They also use this server as their main server, lowering costs of having multiple servers.

Using a ADSL2 connection to host these things is just shocking, the web mail take a little while to load(even in the same city).

freitasm

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#718277 16-Nov-2012 13:21

Sure, but those businesses probably have a business account with proper SLAs, not a consumer account.

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Zeon

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#718280 16-Nov-2012 13:23

Extro: Some of you guys aren't getting the big picture here.

Businesses don't want to be spending lots of money co-locating servers in data centres, in New Zealand ESPECIALLY. You'll pay $200+ just for co-location, then add power and data transfers on top of that. (done my research).

I have had experience with businesses in my city that run servers from their premises. They use those servers for mail(web mail being accessed from home), RDC (connecting to work computers to view files etc at home) etc. They also use this server as their main server, lowering costs of having multiple servers.

Using a ADSL2 connection to host these things is just shocking, the web mail take a little while to load(even in the same city).

Colocation including power and network access can cost as little as $100 per 1u, at least in Auckland. It can also help your insurance costs.

For businesses that I advise or consult for of 10+ staff I always suggest moving servers to a datacentre with remote access and this has paid off many times including those paying $1000+ a month for p2p fibre connections. Classic example was the other weekend when it was really windy, sign blew off the building hit the powerlines and tripped a phase. Half the circuits went to 127v which brought the office to a standstill. Had that been a working day people could have gone home etc. and continued to access everything at the DC.

In regards to your statement around UFB rollout it is always going to be contentious as to who gets it first but just because you want it doesn't mean you should just get it.

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Kixtro

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#718283 16-Nov-2012 13:29

Zeon:
Extro: Some of you guys aren't getting the big picture here.

Businesses don't want to be spending lots of money co-locating servers in data centres, in New Zealand ESPECIALLY. You'll pay $200+ just for co-location, then add power and data transfers on top of that. (done my research).

I have had experience with businesses in my city that run servers from their premises. They use those servers for mail(web mail being accessed from home), RDC (connecting to work computers to view files etc at home) etc. They also use this server as their main server, lowering costs of having multiple servers.

Using a ADSL2 connection to host these things is just shocking, the web mail take a little while to load(even in the same city).

Colocation including power and network access can cost as little as $100 per 1u, at least in Auckland. It can also help your insurance costs.

For businesses that I advise or consult for of 10+ staff I always suggest moving servers to a datacentre with remote access and this has paid off many times including those paying $1000+ a month for p2p fibre connections. Classic example was the other weekend when it was really windy, sign blew off the building hit the powerlines and tripped a phase. Half the circuits went to 127v which brought the office to a standstill. Had that been a working day people could have gone home etc. and continued to access everything at the DC.

In regards to your statement around UFB rollout it is always going to be contentious as to who gets it first but just because you want it doesn't mean you should just get it.

In order to even get a good connection to a data centre and RDC into it from the office you would need a bare minimum of VDSL2. If there's 10+ office workers connecting to the server the RDC will lagg like hell on a ADSL2 connection. The business wouldn't save much money moving it to a data centre.

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#718287 16-Nov-2012 13:33

Why would RDC be used? We're probably talking about SERVERS on the DC, clients running either applications or web-based apps. Really we're not talking about application virtualisation which is probably way over more than a small office needs.

If you're a designer creating web apps you won't be using RDC for sure, you know that. If a company is running their own email server then the DC is the best place to put it - if not using cloud-based services such as Office 365 or Google apps.

I think there's a trend around to try to find ways of saturating the pipe when there's no need for it...

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Zeon

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#718299 16-Nov-2012 14:00

Extro:
Zeon:
Extro: Some of you guys aren't getting the big picture here.

Businesses don't want to be spending lots of money co-locating servers in data centres, in New Zealand ESPECIALLY. You'll pay $200+ just for co-location, then add power and data transfers on top of that. (done my research).

I have had experience with businesses in my city that run servers from their premises. They use those servers for mail(web mail being accessed from home), RDC (connecting to work computers to view files etc at home) etc. They also use this server as their main server, lowering costs of having multiple servers.

Using a ADSL2 connection to host these things is just shocking, the web mail take a little while to load(even in the same city).

Colocation including power and network access can cost as little as $100 per 1u, at least in Auckland. It can also help your insurance costs.

For businesses that I advise or consult for of 10+ staff I always suggest moving servers to a datacentre with remote access and this has paid off many times including those paying $1000+ a month for p2p fibre connections. Classic example was the other weekend when it was really windy, sign blew off the building hit the powerlines and tripped a phase. Half the circuits went to 127v which brought the office to a standstill. Had that been a working day people could have gone home etc. and continued to access everything at the DC.

In regards to your statement around UFB rollout it is always going to be contentious as to who gets it first but just because you want it doesn't mean you should just get it.

In order to even get a good connection to a data centre and RDC into it from the office you would need a bare minimum of VDSL2. If there's 10+ office workers connecting to the server the RDC will lagg like hell on a ADSL2 connection. The business wouldn't save much money moving it to a data centre.

No they won't save money, in fact they will probably spend more. But they get a more stable, reliable and secure environment for critical systems. I would agree that for 5+ users, ADSL (unless Annex M) is pushing it.

At a level of 10 staff, the cost of a VDSL2 connection or even p2p fibre is looking marginal compared to your payroll. A theft or fire etc. could have major consequences, especially as web developers where tangibles objects, plant, etc. is not that important for your business.

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kobiak

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#718307 16-Nov-2012 14:22

I've found out that my street wont be getting a fiber line until 2015, that is ridiculous, there is a school a street away from me, and 2 streets away fiber is already rolled out.

That's the end of my rant ! Anyone else feel the same way as me ?

just look at it from your own prospective:

They have done research and found out that 10 people on that street would use fiber and only you on your street, thus they prioritised that street and not the one you live on.

equation solved.
cheers.

:)

Just move your house to the area where fiber is available. especially if you're renting.

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webwat

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#719210 18-Nov-2012 22:16

Extro: Some of you guys aren't getting the big picture here.

Businesses don't want to be spending lots of money co-locating servers in data centres, in New Zealand ESPECIALLY. You'll pay $200+ just for co-location, then add power and data transfers on top of that. (done my research).

I have had experience with businesses in my city that run servers from their premises. They use those servers for mail(web mail being accessed from home), RDC (connecting to work computers to view files etc at home) etc. They also use this server as their main server, lowering costs of having multiple servers.

Using a ADSL2 connection to host these things is just shocking, the web mail take a little while to load(even in the same city).

The big picture is that your servers arent priority enough to be hosted in a data centre (even a cheap Tier 1without redundancy), but you think its high enough priority for someone else to pay the money. Keep in mind that residential UFB doesnt have an SLA so any outage would be fixed whenever the technician has time to do it. $200 for colocation isnt such a bad price, but why not buy virtual machine space instead. Theres already NZ ISPs getting into that.

Time to find a new industry!

cisconz

cisconz
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#719266 19-Nov-2012 08:04

Nebbie:
2.) I've never heard of a residential user having backup generator in case of catastrophic sustained power failure.

You havn't been to my house then.

Hmmmm

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