UCG, how long is too long for these guys to do some work?

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6325 posts

Uber Geek

#1962814 23-Feb-2018 11:34

Can someone point me to the new laws from the Government to stop owners blocking the installation for what is often no reason? I know there is now a disputes committee, but Id like to know exactly what this owner has to object about and whether it has any valid reason. Currently I cant think of one, but they must have some concern.

And if they are a landlord would they not realise it improves the value of their rental......

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1962926 23-Feb-2018 12:12

TeaLeaf:

Can someone point me to the new laws from the Government to stop owners blocking the installation for what is often no reason? I know there is now a disputes committee, but Id like to know exactly what this owner has to object about and whether it has any valid reason. Currently I cant think of one, but they must have some concern.

And if they are a landlord would they not realise it improves the value of their rental......

The broadly recognised reasons for making a valid objection are as follows:

1. Negative impact on property value

2. Impact on enjoyment and use of the property (excluding visual impact)

3. Impact on future development plans

4. Impact on easements

5. There is a dispute over the property's ownership

An owner generally cannot object just because they don't like the look of above-ground conduit or cabling. Well they can object, but it is not likely that the objection will be upheld. If an owner objects due to a perceived negative impact on property value, they would need to provide evidence to support this. Again I'd imagine that this would be quite difficult to prove to the required standard.

Below are Chorus guides to the 3 consent categories:

Category 1

Category 2

Category 3

Category 1 jobs will proceed as of right with 5 days' notice to the property owner before commencement.

Category 2 jobs will proceed 10 working days after notice is sent to the property owner (unless an objection is lodged in the intervening time).

Category 3 jobs are subject to full written consent being gained before work can commence. It is important to realise that this category is very much the same as the general consent process prior to the Land Access Reforms ie any affected property owner can refuse to give consent for a Category 3 job for any reason, and therefore the order may not proceed.

[EDIT: Added an additional valid reason for objection and provided further explanation on Category 3 outcomes]

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1962930 23-Feb-2018 12:26

Further to my previous post....

There is a third party disputes resolution process available if required.

If the work proposed at your place has been classed as Category 1, or if you disagree with the LFC's decision regarding a Category 2 objection, you may be able to take the matter further.

The dispute process is run by a third party - Utilities Disputes Ltd

There are specific categories for disputes. These are:

1. You disagree about the category of the proposed build work

2. You disagree with the LFC's decision about a Category 2 objection

3. You believe you have a valid reason to object to the proposed work but it has been classed as a Category 1 build

4. The work has been completed but you don't believe the LFC has properly complied with the build requirements (this may include such things as not returning any disturbed surfaces to their former condition as closely as possible)

For further information on the disputes resolution service, please visit www.utilitiesdisputes.co.nz

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#1962947 23-Feb-2018 13:08

Wheelbarrow01:

1. Negative impact on property value

2. Impact on enjoyment and use of the property (excluding visual impact)

3. Impact on future development plans

4. Impact on easements

5. There is a dispute over the property's ownership

Thanks Wheelbarrow :-)

Ok definitely none of those. The Conduit if anything is below the apartment Im trying to get the fibre to haha.

Visually the Garage is already full of Conduit and I was told they would use the same ones.

Any ideas how I get this sped up? Im sick of being mucked around by red tape and the job sitting in a queue for months.

https://www.chorus.co.nz/help-and-support/consent-and-access/category-1-build-methods

Existing duct which was in the design. Very confused where its at.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1962970 23-Feb-2018 13:42

Your best course of action is to ask your RSP to escalate the order due to a lack of progress over time. This involves them hitting the escalate button on the Chorus order, which (if accepted) will then require a response from the provisioning team at Chorus. If you get no joy from that, ask them to escalate it to level 2 - this involves your RSP sending an email to the level 2 provisioning team at Chorus (I'm sorry I can't give the email address out as it's for RSP use only).

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#1962993 23-Feb-2018 14:22

The ISP (you guys ) told me it was already approved for consent, so Im not sure if they know what is going on. Is it still worth contacting them?

Like I said, I feel UFB procurement is in its infancy as a process and none of the 4 parties are talking and my job gets left in a queue for months with no updates.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1963044 23-Feb-2018 15:47

TeaLeaf:

The ISP (you guys ) told me it was already approved for consent, so Im not sure if they know what is going on. Is it still worth contacting them?

Like I said, I feel UFB procurement is in its infancy as a process and none of the 4 parties are talking and my job gets left in a queue for months with no updates.

Ah - you should have mentioned it was us earlier. Flick me a PM with your order number and I will have a look for you. Unfortunately I finish at 4pm and am on leave for a week after that, but I can always get a colleague to look into it while I am away.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

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TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#1963093 23-Feb-2018 16:58

Not sparks fault in reality, a case of stuff sitting around and a process in its infancy and a load of red tape for owners.

Thanks to the help Im getting from you all, I feel much less frustrated knowing Im right haha.

jen1001

256 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#1981627 22-Mar-2018 16:06

networkn:

UCG were involved in a clients fibre installation they were a complete NIGHTMARE to deal with. Impossible to get a straight answer from, didn't return calls, escalations went nowhere, nothing short of disgraceful.

We ended up lodging a formal complaint to Chorus about it and they took some action.

Just came across this thread regarding UCG, and thought my case may have been an isolated one but the above post was pretty much a similar experience to mine, for a home installation.

Got fibre set up in our apartment recently, however the initial scoping session last week was a complete disaster. The 2 guys that were sent to check things out looked like they had no idea of what they were doing! I'm even wondering if this was their first scope because they stayed less than 20 minutes, finally saying they couldn't install anything. No straight answer from them either at first but after a lot of probing, they said it was because additional electrical work needed to be done and there was no ceiling access.

I contacted my ISP (Vodafone) who suggested a re-scope be done for a second opinion. A UCG manager got in touch a day later and after trying to brush things off, he admitted the 2 guys they'd sent over were inexperienced. They organised a new appointment, sent 2 awesome techs who had done installs in our building before. Scope and install were all done in one go hassle free in less than 2 hours. From reading this thread, it definitely pays to take things up higher when dealing with them, or with Chorus directly (who I have to say were very helpful in this situation too!).

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#1989541 6-Apr-2018 14:57

1 year on with a pre existing conduit single level building with no red flags.

Sitting in Consents for over a month now.

Chrous need to use better 3rd parties imo.

Design letters should not be sent out as generics stating they are going to dig up the paving and partial driveway, when they intend to use pre existing conduit. Thats alarm number 1 for the owners and body corp.

Secondly their design shows a big red line from the pit under the drive and paving to the side of the building, of course UCG know what this means. But to the body corp it confirms alarm number 1.

Lastly UCG in their sub standard design dont know whether they will use each units pre existing conduit for copper in or if they will have to drill. That gives the owners and body corp a lot of faith in what they are doing.

Luckily having worked in IP as an SA Ive worked with lots if IP designers (CCDA level) and I immediately explained to the body corp what the drawing meant, the big redline should have not been a solid line and that they are using preexisting infrastructure.

Strangely the lady renting the unit gets a letter saying its been approved and work will begin.

Only to then find out by emailing UCG with all their care factor that its actually sitting with Chorus Consents and Consents are overloaded.

So, the tenant is looking to bundle all emails from all 3 groups, cancel the installation and send it to the disputes group the government set up.

Seriously, is NZ kidding itself with UFB, if it takes over a year to install a single story unit complex with prexisting conduit to use. What .... hope do we expect for multi story dwellings ie business.

So why bother, the amount the tax payers are spending in this technology, and we cant get a connection within 1 year = no return on investment. Stop laying fibre.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2020706 22-May-2018 20:40

Well after nearly a year since UFB was completed on the street the process is nearly complete, but unless they can do a better job than placing the MOT and Modem with all its blinking lights in the main bedroom, the order is going to get cancelled after the build has already been completed. Not what was advised would occur and not impressed with how UCG just want to put the MOT box at the easiest possible location without trying to put it where it would be useful. Which makes the whole build and consent process a whole bunch of wasted time as the installer scope guy wanted to go against what the design and build had suggested.

Honestly if you are looking at fibre and are in an apartment, either move to Aus, or just dont bother with UFB into apartments even single story easy ones like this. Its a waste of time and tax payers money.

quickymart

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#2020789 22-May-2018 22:29

MOT?

toejam316

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Lifetime subscriber

#2020806 22-May-2018 22:52

I'd assume MOT is ONT, typo'd twice.

Push back on that install, escalate it to Chorus, which the RSP should be able to help you with, because that would fall into the unacceptable zone for me. If the Service Company had people on site, and you talked with them and explained what needed to be done, and they agreed it was viable, they should've helped with arrangements to ensure viability - even as simple as advising you to run conduit and string to the location you desire the ONT to live (which I'm guessing they didn't by the sound of what you're saying) should've been enough to help get things underway, or even better, supplied some low smoke conduit with guidance on how to run it with minimal bends and correct bend radii, so that it could be blown into place.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2021084 23-May-2018 12:15

toejam316:

Push back on that install, escalate it to Chorus

ROFL ONT YES!!!!!! my bad, sorry, Im very ill and not with it. Thank you for your help, Im freaking out after helping the tenant who is a close friend for this long only to find out the installer just wants to put it in her bedroom.

Richard from Chorus on here has helped immensely get these guys going, so its taken this long even with his help.

Is there some way I can upload a pic, Ive done a floor plan of the apartment showing where phone jacks are and the double power points. Maybe you guys can help me? (Im not sure where to upload the PIC too, is there a safe website?)

The Problem is, they cannot use the roof as there are no man holes (nor insulation from what ive been told). The floor is solid concrete and underneath this unit is where the pit conduit comes into the complex and has now been built. Every apartment has an existing copper conduit. The build team did a pretty good job and built a conduit with connected fibre to the main apartment box, this back bone has a conduit for every apartment which they terminated right next to the entrance for the copper conduit which terminates on the roof of the garaging for every unit. Its not obvious where it enters from inside the apartment though, but it wouldnt be hard to figure out by measuring the main external conduit in from the front door step and go backward from inside the garage the same length, then its approx 3feet inward on the roof of the garaging (the copper conduit). It was said they would use this conduit to install.

There are 2 bedroom and a living room. Each room has a terminated phone jack. The UCG guy wanted to drill first, which is just slap my head territory, the second idea he had was put it next to the person who rents the apartments bed where there is an unused telephone jack, again unacceptable for obvious reasons, then he wanted to use the second bedroom telephone jack as an outlet and run about 30m of fibre all over the house to get to the TV area which is where the router currently lives and is the only area that needs Ethernet (TV, Xbox etc). I said to him I was told you could run the fibre through the walls (given i know its hard sometimes when lines get caught up, but still, plus they have the snake etc).

The final jackpoint connected is on the wall in the kitchen beside the second bench where the dishwasher/sink is. This has had an extension run along the skirting to the TV and another jack point put there. This same setup would be acceptable.

What he is failing to understand is, yes consent was signed off, but you cant just do a hodge podge job and expect the tenant not to get in trouble with the landlord.

Im pretty sure all 3 phone jack outlets are daisy chained together, so I dont see there being any major with undoing every jackpoint and then pulling the fibre through, one step at a time?

I was told if a future tenant wanted a phone line they would just reinstall the copper.

When you say conduit? Do you mean internal conduit, like the flat seam stuff?

DarkShadow

1647 posts

Uber Geek

#2021092 23-May-2018 12:26

TeaLeaf:

Is there some way I can upload a pic, Ive done a floor plan of the apartment showing where phone jacks are and the double power points. Maybe you guys can help me? (Im not sure where to upload the PIC too, is there a safe website?)

Go here: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/gallery.asp

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