Chorus made the news again..

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#1979929 19-Mar-2018 15:50

sbiddle:

It's hardly surprising he didn't a response to his letters to Mark Ratcliffe sent in December 2017 considering he left Chorus in February.

I'm actually slightly confused as to what the issue is here and what is stopping the driveway from being resealed. Shallow trenching has "shallow" in it for a reason and is a pretty normal method of running cable. From the picture though it's pretty hard to understand what the driveway looks like. If they're removing all the existing concrete for the driveway it'll simply leave the exposed cable which can simply be concreted over - it's not going to damage it.

I read it as the company contracted to replace the drive has said the replacement process (which I would imagine involves stripping the existing concrete with heavy machinery) will almost certainly damage a cable that's only trenched 20mm deep, and that Chorus should have trenched it at least 450mm deep. Chorus initially said it had been trenched 600mm deep, but then backed down when it was proved that in places it was only 20mm deep.

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#1979930 19-Mar-2018 15:53

sbiddle:

It's hardly surprising he didn't a response to his letters to Mark Ratcliffe sent in December 2017 considering he left Chorus in February.

- it's not going to damage it.

Exactly its pretty hardy stuff, and in the process of prep'ing the material to support the new surface they simply move it below the surface 20mm or so, hardly a big cost, and while they are at it they should be putting in 20mm conduit to save the neighbours hassle when they move to fibre in future.

Cyril

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#1979969 19-Mar-2018 16:27

Lias:

sbiddle:

It's hardly surprising he didn't a response to his letters to Mark Ratcliffe sent in December 2017 considering he left Chorus in February.

I'm actually slightly confused as to what the issue is here and what is stopping the driveway from being resealed. Shallow trenching has "shallow" in it for a reason and is a pretty normal method of running cable. From the picture though it's pretty hard to understand what the driveway looks like. If they're removing all the existing concrete for the driveway it'll simply leave the exposed cable which can simply be concreted over - it's not going to damage it.

I read it as the company contracted to replace the drive has said the replacement process (which I would imagine involves stripping the existing concrete with heavy machinery) will almost certainly damage a cable that's only trenched 20mm deep, and that Chorus should have trenched it at least 450mm deep. Chorus initially said it had been trenched 600mm deep, but then backed down when it was proved that in places it was only 20mm deep.

That's all fine - except for the situation that seems to exist is a cut across existing concrete which will only be a shallow trench. You can't trench something like that to 600mm, which is why you have shallow trenching.

Without more photos for a better understanding it's pretty hard to comment on whether Chorus are in the right or wrong.

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#1980063 19-Mar-2018 18:25

pricks did that to me too. If I did it myself though, oh no, had to be inspected, had to be the right depth etc etc.

But let them? Nope, dropped it in a 5cm gap. That of course meant I couldn't repair the cut properly, as my drive is asphalt. In fact the asphalt co who did it originally were p****d off, they'd had calls from several customers that Chorus had done that too.

Chorus said they would dump a layer of concrete over (the cut) for me.

hah, like that's fixing it properly/ Their own website says like for like. But no.....

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#1980113 19-Mar-2018 20:08

The joys of lowest bidder contracting.

The government did a lowest bidder for the UFB project, and awarded it to those who reckon they could do it for less.

Those who reckon they could do it for less then went out and got lowest bidder quotes for installation (and you'll note it's pretty much just power companies with pre-existing infrastructure that managed to beat Chorus at their own game).

Those who got the lowest bidder quotes (and you'll find quite often those companies are the same companies who've been doing the copper infrastructure, no names named) went out and tried to make it as cheap as they could, found shortcuts and advised Chorus what would help lower costs even further so everyone made more cash.

There's a reason the industry is having trouble holding skilled technicians and shifting to facet workers, and it's not for an increase in care or quality of the jobs, the all mighty dollar always wins, and if we wanted a better national infrastructure that will last half as long as the Copper network (which somehow has limped along for 30 odd years with certain aspects entirely unchanged, the rest repaired and replaced only when absolutely needed) since being privatized and given far less care than it was under the Government, the lowest bidder solution was not the one to pick. Hind sight is 20/20, the silver lining is those of us who were a bit more savvy were a bit more demanding, got in early, and made it work for ourselves (although obviously a lot of others never even had a chance).

God, I sound like an old cable jointer.

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#1980122 19-Mar-2018 20:28

sbiddle:

If they're removing all the existing concrete for the driveway it'll simply leave the exposed cable which can simply be concreted over - it's not going to damage it.

I imagine they would need to scrape the existing driveway surface with a digger - and microduct near the surface would probably get damaged. Does anyone know if the "standards" for drop installation are in any way regulated or purely internal Chorus guidelines?

Alan

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#1980145 19-Mar-2018 21:13

toejam316:

The government did a lowest bidder for the UFB project, and awarded it to those who reckon they could do it for less.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be serious or sarcastic, because that's certainly not true.

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#1980173 19-Mar-2018 21:45

sbiddle:

toejam316:

The government did a lowest bidder for the UFB project, and awarded it to those who reckon they could do it for less.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be serious or sarcastic, because that's certainly not true.

In truth, it's mostly off the cuff rough assumptions - I know that it was something much more involved than that, certainly regulated, etc. but the boil down was pretty simply who can do the most the cheapest, not who wants money.

I'm far too busy being old and grumpy to do proper research at the moment, feel free to correct my assumptions.

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#1980216 20-Mar-2018 01:14

It was no better when everything was owned by Telecom, or the Post office for that matter. Leadins used to often be direct buried. Both my house and the neighbours were direct buried only 200mm deep or so (houses built late 60s). And there are parts of the 20mm green conduit installed by Telecom approx 10 years ago in my property. Which are only 100mm approx deep.

For Chorus, they will weigh up the cost of doing it properly, and spending heaps of money upfront (which they have to borrow). With getting the network installed quicker and cheaper, meaning they can start earning revenue from it sooner, and get some of the debt repaid. And higher maintenance costs are a future cost. (rather than an immediate cost).

I recall that in the very first areas that were installed by Chorus. They would install new 20mm ducting where existing ducting didn't exist or could be used. But those installs were often very slow - even the standalone house installs. People complained that it took too long to get fibre installed, and it was a hassle if you weren't always home. As lots of visits were required from different work crews. Unlike now - Where both of my immediate neighbours had all of their fibre works done in just 1 day.

In short - most people favour speed / convenience over a high quality job. As long as "it works", and it is cheap, that is all they care about. This is the same group of people who buy expensive and/or brand new cars and don't get them serviced. And when getting quotes for anything, they only compare on price. As they either think that all tradies are out to rip them off, Or that everything that tradies do it black magic, therefore they have no way of telling what is a quality install Vs a dodgy install.

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#1980231 20-Mar-2018 06:35

toejam316:

sbiddle:

toejam316:

The government did a lowest bidder for the UFB project, and awarded it to those who reckon they could do it for less.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be serious or sarcastic, because that's certainly not true.

In truth, it's mostly off the cuff rough assumptions - I know that it was something much more involved than that, certainly regulated, etc. but the boil down was pretty simply who can do the most the cheapest, not who wants money.

I'm far too busy being old and grumpy to do proper research at the moment, feel free to correct my assumptions.

Yeah, it was much more complicated than that. Imagine a situation where Treasury and pollys have decided on the Govt investment before they knew the real costs of the network they were planning (was originally going to be a dedicated fibre from the exchange to each residence (rather than PON) to avoid future LLU regulatory issues!!). Telecommunications network designed by economists. Telecom/Chorus were not so naive about the costs and my guess is that the final contracts went to the companies who could actually deliver, rather than lowest cost (Govt investment was fixed and well below the actual costs, so lowest bidder was not a factor).

Alan H

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#1980232 20-Mar-2018 06:37

And the main thing everyone isn't talking about is the race to the bottom for retail providers.
If the commodity of the internet is viewed as an essential service but one where the providers all battle over price then no wonder people aren't interested in paying the actual cost of installation.
The copper network was built using taxpayers money as it's an essential service and Telecom/Chorus were able to charge the actual cost of the connection fee for new copper connections.

It's sad that internet is viewed as a low cost commodity. Until it stops working then your life is over and expect compensation for loss of service and impact on your business. SMH.

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acjh58

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#1980236 20-Mar-2018 07:24

BarTender:

It's sad that internet is viewed as a low cost commodity. Until it stops working then your life is over and expect compensation for loss of service and impact on your business. SMH.

I totally agree. It is not being treated as the essential infrastructure that was originally envisioned. Quick prediction: 5G gets used as UFB access network overlay if they can get the spectrum issues sorted. Core UFB supporting 5G access avoids the fibre drop problem?? Just a thought.

Alan

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#1980285 20-Mar-2018 08:33

These are outlier cases though right? There are almost 400,000 connections and most of these have gone well and there are no issues. It is easy to bang on about the small minority that have an issue. This is like reading the comments on a Stuff article in here....

http://www.speedtest.net/result/6594768645.png

xpd

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#1980289 20-Mar-2018 08:42

Theclaytons:

These are outlier cases though right? There are almost 400,000 connections and most of these have gone well and there are no issues. It is easy to bang on about the small minority that have an issue. This is like reading the comments on a Stuff article in here....

Well.... out of those 400,000, how many actually know if its a good install or not ? 125000 of them could have a cable just dangling on a fence but if noone in the know notices.......

XPD / Gavin

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#1980293 20-Mar-2018 08:45

But yet, we are talking about only a a handful here...makes me think the majority of people are happy with the install they have received....

http://www.speedtest.net/result/6594768645.png

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