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BarTender
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  #2205494 27-Mar-2019 09:11
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raytaylor:

 

MichaelNZ:

 

That is fine, however, some ISP's use business accounts as a way to cross-subsidise their residential services. It's the only explanation I can think of for the difference in price.

 

Which is kind of odd because as a business user -

 

1. I don't bitch and moan and then leave them because someone else decided to lower the bar even further price wise. In this vein I don't play them off against bottom of the barrel ISP's either.

 

2. I don't ask for free equipment. In actual fact, I don't want it.

 

3. I'm easy to support

 

4. My data usage is fair to them

 

5. I don't do dumb stuff like have my login credentials compromised and get their MX RBL'ed.

 

And to be clear I am talking in general here. Obviously, in this neck of the woods (geekzone) I expect I am among like minded people.

 



You are definitley not the norm. Businesses seem to require much more support in my expierence. 

 

 

To me the requirements for BGP is VERY much out of the ordinary. Most companies have moved to cloud email providers so the necessity to have on-prem email servers with the associated Static IP and unblocking of port 25 that entails. And then if they are hosting a site that is also hosted in the cloud for the same reason. AWS/GCP/Azure do an excellent job of providing WAF/DDoS controls that just don't scale to the home environment.

 

Then the end result is companies only need a dumb internet connection with NAT and perhaps a firewall for additional outbound / inbound control if required.

 

If even 1% of the business customers asked for it I would be surprised and that would only be on 1+GB symmetrical not UFB connections. And because of that the ISP will need to configure very explicit BGP import/export rules for the address space that you have. Make sure that is properly distributed across any nodes they have and allocated only to your connection.

 

All of that custom configuration takes time to design and implement, plus make sure that the Level 1 support tech if they ever receive a call on your connection knows not to deprovision it and reprovision it as an initial fault finding step.

 

To me that is why it costs money, as it costs money to put in, plus support as an exception to every other customer they have. And that custom configuration will need to be managed across release cycles when the core routers are upgraded to make sure that the configuration doesn't get lost.

 

I think that if companies are offering service with BGP for twice what the residential rate is that's an incredibly good deal, since if it was me I would charge 10x more to discourage this terrible behavior.




MichaelNZ

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  #2205503 27-Mar-2019 09:36
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BarTender:

 

I think that if companies are offering service with BGP for twice what the residential rate is that's an incredibly good deal, since if it was me I would charge 10x more to discourage this terrible behavior.

 

 

My goodness @BarTender. How did I ever get by for years without your wet blanket to keep me safe from the big wide world out there?

 

The underlying technical reality is BGP has been around a long time and was in wide use back in the days of E1 frame relay and DDS connections. And having had those and used those, VDSL is better technically and is more reliable.

 

So while 1Gbps fibre is certainly a nice to have it's not a technical requirement.

 

In my business - both internal use and the solutions I recommend for clients - I go with what is objectively true and relevant for their / my circumstances. In many cases the cloud is an appropriate choice. But it's not my decision at this particular time. 

 

So the context of this thread is to find an ISP who can cater for my requirements rather than 2nd guess them. And so far I have a list of companies who will. Obviously not the [cheap mass market companies who I wouldn't choose anyway] but they are out there.

 

BarTender:

 

To me the requirements for BGP is VERY much out of the ordinary. Most companies have moved to cloud email providers so the necessity to have on-prem email servers with the associated Static IP and unblocking of port 25 that entails.

 

 

The reasons for blocking port-25 have absolutely nothing to do with the connection medium. And every ISP I have ever come across will unblock it upon request.

 

In various SysAdmin roles over the years I have found the biggest email PITA is clients who have their password compromised and then become a source of spam.





WFH Linux Systems and Networks Engineer in the Internet industry | Specialising in Mikrotik | APNIC member | Open to job offers | ZL2NET


raytaylor
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  #2206709 28-Mar-2019 22:29
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Probably also something to point out is that most isps require a minimum of a /24 advertisement via BGP. 

You could either rent a block from an ISP - they will probably need to apply for another ASN for you and reassign the IPs to that ASN.

 

If you are going to become an APNIC member, they ask which two upstreams you will be peering with / advertising through as part of the application process. 





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