Chorus Fibre Install: Cable Depth

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Chorus

#2292785 9-Aug-2019 09:34

Oh boy, where do I start?

The detail available on our website is specifically for developers who want to install conduit during construction for ease of install later. It states 450mm because that is the suggested depth to bury PVC conduit, less than that and walking over the area may cause the conduit to crack. This is not an issue for our ruggedized cable which is designed to flex and therefore only needs to be buried to 200mm. Not because it needs protection mind you, just to be kept out of the way.

As I’ve mentioned on Geekzone before, the ruggedized cable we use is pretty darn strong. It’s a flexible conduit specifically designed for installation inside property boundary’s without the need for additional mechanical protection. Yes with a concerted effort you could put a spade or blade through it and cause damage to the Fibre. It’s much the same for the existing copper lines, and if you go digging you will find most of those are little more than a cable buried in the ground too. The difference here being that Fibre does not rot, nor does it corrode. So short on physically cutting it, the Fibre will last pretty much indefinitely.

The install methods we (and other LFC’s for that matter) employ are based on international accepted standards, developed in agreement with the Government and Crown Infrastructure Partners. At the end of the day Chorus and the Government only has a set amount of funding. We could spend several days on each install, with every inch of the network run through mechanical protection. However in doing so we would be forced to roll out only a fraction of the current coverage, the project as a whole may well not be financially viable or (shock horror) the property owner may be forced to pay for their install.

At the end of the day, yes there are still some issues. As with every industry, there are instances where things don’t quite go to plan. However we have a team dedicated to resolving any issues so long as you let us know. You can find several ways of getting in touch on our website here: https://www.chorus.co.nz/contact-us.

@ startupgeek that looks like it may be too shallow but from photo’s its often not very easy to see. If you could send us a PM with your address I would love to look into this for you. ^Richard

chevrolux

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#2292798 9-Aug-2019 10:04

Not because it needs protection mind you, just to be kept out of the way.

Tell that to literally anyone who has had to deal with ruggedized in their garden or fence line and hit it with a shovel.

The install methods we (and other LFC’s for that matter) employ are based on international accepted standards, developed in agreement with the Government and Crown Infrastructure Partners. At the end of the day Chorus and the Government only has a set amount of funding. We could spend several days on each install, with every inch of the network run through mechanical protection. However in doing so we would be forced to roll out only a fraction of the current coverage, the project as a whole may well not be financially viable or (shock horror) the property owner may be forced to pay for their install.

Just because other countries employ similar standards doesn't mean it's a good idea. What happened to NZ being a world leader and all that?

I wouldn't expect fibre to be protected under a house, just run neatly suffices. But if you are stapling ruggedized to a fence, it is an extremely small amount of extra work to just throw it in some conduit. Same for in the ground, you have to bury the ruggedized anyway, why not just a touch more protection.

I feel like Chorus has forgotten the daily fixes their techs have had to do on broken service leads in the copper network for the last 50 years - I guess fibre is waaaay easier to repair right?!

startupgeek

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#2292813 9-Aug-2019 10:46

Chorusnz:

Oh boy, where do I start?

The detail available on our website is specifically for developers who want to install conduit during construction for ease of install later. It states 450mm because that is the suggested depth to bury PVC conduit, less than that and walking over the area may cause the conduit to crack. This is not an issue for our ruggedized cable which is designed to flex and therefore only needs to be buried to 200mm. Not because it needs protection mind you, just to be kept out of the way.

As I’ve mentioned on Geekzone before, the ruggedized cable we use is pretty darn strong. It’s a flexible conduit specifically designed for installation inside property boundary’s without the need for additional mechanical protection. Yes with a concerted effort you could put a spade or blade through it and cause damage to the Fibre. It’s much the same for the existing copper lines, and if you go digging you will find most of those are little more than a cable buried in the ground too. The difference here being that Fibre does not rot, nor does it corrode. So short on physically cutting it, the Fibre will last pretty much indefinitely.

The install methods we (and other LFC’s for that matter) employ are based on international accepted standards, developed in agreement with the Government and Crown Infrastructure Partners. At the end of the day Chorus and the Government only has a set amount of funding. We could spend several days on each install, with every inch of the network run through mechanical protection. However in doing so we would be forced to roll out only a fraction of the current coverage, the project as a whole may well not be financially viable or (shock horror) the property owner may be forced to pay for their install.

At the end of the day, yes there are still some issues. As with every industry, there are instances where things don’t quite go to plan. However we have a team dedicated to resolving any issues so long as you let us know. You can find several ways of getting in touch on our website here: https://www.chorus.co.nz/contact-us.

@ startupgeek that looks like it may be too shallow but from photo’s its often not very easy to see. If you could send us a PM with your address I would love to look into this for you. ^Richard

I have messaged you.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2293120 9-Aug-2019 17:44

chevrolux:

Not because it needs protection mind you, just to be kept out of the way.

Tell that to literally anyone who has had to deal with ruggedized in their garden or fence line and hit it with a shovel.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe anyone has done this with a Chorus ruggedised cable. I possess a short length of ruggedised cable which I show to RSP staff as part of my work. I have laid it down on a concrete path and attacked it with my serrated garden spade several times. Whilst it leaves some visible surface impressions on the outer layer of the sheathing, it comes nowhere close to cutting through it, or even bending it. I have also tried and failed to cut it with a decent pair of kitchen scissors - again to no avail. Apart from the strength of the outer sheath, each cable also has a steel wire embedded in it for tracing purposes, which only adds to the difficulty of cutting through it.

I honestly do not believe that your average Sunday gardening session could cause severe damage to properly installed ruggedised cable - at least not with any common hand gardening tools. I accept that if you subject it to a prolonged & purposeful attack with any sort of power tool, then yes you are likely to damage it and if it has been installed incorrectly, that is unfortunately more likely. However if anyone has concerns that their installation has not been done right, all you need to do is let Chorus know via your RSP within a reasonable time after the work has been completed, and we'll send someone around to check it. If it hasn't been done to spec, our team will put it right.

While I am on that, I recently had an RSP request to send the tech back out as their customer was not happy with the way his fibre had been installed. Unfortunately that customer waited over 4 years to raise the issue! Try calling your plumber or sparky 4 years later to say you're not happy with their workmanship and see if he's happy to return at no cost....

If I can get hold of some more cable, I may record myself testing it to destruction Mythbusters style just to prove my point. I think people will be surprised.

While I am here - this is not an open invitation for anyone to try and prove me wrong by deliberately attacking their own working cable - please do not do that!!

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

sparkz25

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#2293165 9-Aug-2019 19:41

So what does this all mean? @Chorusnz

quickymart

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#2293182 9-Aug-2019 19:50

I believe that's for a new build, not necessarily a fibre install to an existing property.

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iwanttobeamole

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#2293184 9-Aug-2019 19:52

sparkz25:

So what does this all mean? @Chorusnz

I'm guessing not this then?

Jase2985

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#2293189 9-Aug-2019 19:53

sparkz25:

So what does this all mean? @Chorusnz

i suspect thats the requirement for the street, not private property

this is the page you are looking for

https://www.chorus.co.nz/help-and-support/digging/what-trenching

sparkz25

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#2293194 9-Aug-2019 20:08

Jase2985:

sparkz25:

So what does this all mean? @Chorusnz

i suspect thats the requirement for the street, not private property

this is the page you are looking for

https://www.chorus.co.nz/help-and-support/digging/what-trenching

Even that page/document requires it to be buried no less than 450mm deep.

Maybe the Technicians tape measure is broken?

@Chorusnz Have you read your Documents?

I mean like you have written them and these are your requirements are they not?

Or was that not your department?

sparkz25

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#2293219 9-Aug-2019 20:13

iwanttobeamole:

sparkz25:

So what does this all mean? @Chorusnz

I'm guessing not this then?

That looks to be about 100mm below the surface.

And has that been run through that timber and just sitting under those cobbles?

Also, that bend radius looks a bight tight where it goes into the timber, How thick are those cobbles they look to be less than 100mm? Im going to guess 50mm?

raytaylor

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#2293381 10-Aug-2019 09:40

startupgeek:

I wonder if I complained to chorus about the depth what they would actually say lol

They would say complain to your retailer

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#2293432 10-Aug-2019 10:30

This is from a chorus document
Fibre Installation Lead-In - Getting fibre from the road to your customer’s property

which outlines for ISPs what chorus will do for them as part of the installation.

If its not 200mm deep then call the ISP and get them to lodge a problem ticket for chorus to fix it.

A cousin of mine runs a dingo / earthworks contracting company. They recently re-turfed a yard and hit the fiber at 10cm deep and chorus was claiming the contractor had to pay for it. Ended up that they hadn't met their own installation standards, and the fiber wouldnt have been hit if it was at the correct depth.

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Jase2985

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#2293460 10-Aug-2019 12:16

@chorusnz could you please provide the guidance documents that your installers are required to follow when putting in an underground lead in, because EVERYTHING on your website contradicts your post at the top of the page.

@Wheelbarrow01 appreciate that the microduct is tough but that doesn't change that fact the network should be built so it doesn't get hit by something like a spade when someone is doing their gardening. hence why someone put the depth as 450mm in the original docs. it seems like they use the work may to mean always. may should be the exception, ie there are roots or something in the way so cant go that deep etc.

are you not trying to build a world class network here? and stapling it to a fence, really a fence lasts maybe 20 years if its brand new, most will fail at some point then what?

Tinkerisk

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#2293596 10-Aug-2019 16:27

I guess somebody just mixed up 450 mm with 45 cm - resulting in 45mm. 😄

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#2293603 10-Aug-2019 16:50

Tinkerisk:I guess somebody just mixed up 450 mm with 45 cm - resulting in 45mm. 😄

Ssssshhhhh, you've given them an excuse!

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