Chorus installed fibre - can ONT be used as router

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#3029711 30-Jan-2023 16:54

michaelmurfy:

The ONT does not use 20W so you're incorrect there too. Compared to the huge amount of power the legacy phone system used (the NEAX in the exchange along with the DSL equipment) the ONT and supporting hardware back in the exchange in-fact uses a tonne less power.

Supporting both options from an ISP point of view isn't ideal either... You're talking 2 totally separate platforms. For Hyperfibre ISP's will support both options but customers have been requesting the ONT be put into passthrough mode as again, it isn't ideal to be used as a router.

Customers like having strong WiFi in their house to support the growing amount of connected devices. You're never going to get that from a small ONT and in apartment buildings for example the ONT may not actually be anywhere near the apartment but instead they run Ethernet from the ONT to the apartment. There are too many reasons to list off why using the ONT for a mainstream ISP just isn't an option.

also, isn’t the most typical installation with the aerials pointed to the floor 😊

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michaeln

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#3029712 30-Jan-2023 17:05

cyril7:

michaeln:

SNIP

How does the RSP manage the built-in router? Without compromising Chorus's management of the ONT? How does the RSP ensure that Chorus can't interfere with the RSP's management of the router?

The ONT has a router built in because in most countries the access provider (LFC in NZ) and the service provider (RSP in NZ) are the same entity. They don't make a simple, layer 2 only ONT.

Chorus is NOT ALLOWED to be an RSP.

Not disagreeing with you, but just pointing out Chorus does have simple Layer2 ONT in an SFP format, and Chorus does have a portal to enable RSP's the ability to manage the RGW aspects of the ONT should they wish to.

There are also many manufactures of SFP ONT modules, although not all compatible with Nokia's ISAM's

Cyril

Yes, but a portal isn't sufficient for a major RSP (that want APIs), although probably OK for a small one. The SFP ONTs are recent(ish). And the other issues remain.

The simple layer-2 service that the LFCs provide is a feature, and I'd love to see the current ONT replaced with something smaller, using less power, far simpler, and cheaper. However, that involves changing (truck rolls) a Very Large number of existing installations.

And I think we've collectively answered OP's question.

Wellingtondave

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#3029789 30-Jan-2023 21:33

djtOtago:

Hello customer support.

I need you to.
Port forward my Plex server, Security Camera, Game server, My Wiget dodad thingy service.

And change the address space the DHCP server uses because it conflicts with something.

and while you are at it change the DNS server settings because I don't want to use your DNS servers anymore.

and install a VPN server.

and could you setup a vlan or sub network to run my IoT / smart home stuff on.

You may jest but way back before hardware firewalls were really a thing in the early 2000's, I went to see a demo that was being prepared for Telecom on one of the BFR, think it was someone like F5 or Juniper, it was a hosted firewall / router, file / virus scanner, so that all that was given to a residential or business customer was an ethernet tail, delivered via DSL.

quickymart

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#3029989 31-Jan-2023 16:10

dyllos:

Okay, thank you for the reasons why ONT may not be so desirable - they make sense for some, sure. It'd still be nice for ISPs to give both options. We certainly do not need any fancy stuff and even prefer ethernet over wifi. The other obvious question is then why Chorus doesn't just use a simpler ONT if much of it's hardware isn't going to be used. Anyhow, thanks for the answers - I am now more informed than I was :)

Just conservatively on the power use issue: 20W * 24h * 1,000,000connections * 365d = 175,200,000kW/h/year = not a small amount of energy

It's a lot more complicated than just enabling internet from the ONT, and the majority of service providers simply won't do it, for the reasons Mr Murphy has stated. If it means that much to you, look for a provider that offers it - but be prepared for a fairly tricky setup ahead (and troubleshooting if required).

richms

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#3030003 31-Jan-2023 16:44

Why build all that infrastructure, staff training and more testing on any change just to support a tiny minority of people who want to not use an ISP supplied router? I don't see there being any value on it.

If it gets minimal uptake then it will result in a small customer base that you have to drag thru all future changes till enough of them drop off being customers that you can proactively close the remainder and get all the whining that results from pulling a service that people are using.

Richard rich.ms

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#3030114 31-Jan-2023 22:27

dyllos:

So, if one ISP can use the ONT, then can't ALL of them??

I'd say it's having more control over the end-user experience and thus their customer support costs. If the ONT isn't working they can blame Chorus and Chorus can't blame them. If their own router messes up, they can for deliver a new one very quickly.

ukanian now in Albany, Auckland (I'm told that that's just North of NZ :-)

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hamish225

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#3031085 2-Feb-2023 21:48

nztim: Chorus offer to RSPs, RSPs decide if they are going to use the feature or not, most RSPs choose not to.

Think about it, Imagine asking your RSP to change your wifi password?

I can tell you people absolutely do this already, even when they're not using a router provided by their current ISP.

*Insert big spe*dtest result here*

quickymart

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#3031093 2-Feb-2023 22:42

Is the OP coming back to this thread? Did they get the response/information they were seeking?

Greendrake

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#3064365 16-Apr-2023 19:42

I am intending to do what the OP asks about — use ONT 300 as a router with an ISP which has confirmed they allow it.

So, I have it on my wall with Power and GPON LEDs happily on.

I plug an RJ45 cable in as on the picture below, the other end connected to a laptop (instead of a "modem") with the intention to log in as here and look around. But the link does not get established: the laptop keeps saying the cable is unplugged. The LAN LED is off. Same with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th LAN ports.

The cable is fine: I plug it into a switch (instead of the ONT) and the link LED (on the switch) starts flashing, the laptop immediately shows "Cable connected".

What could be wrong with LAN on the ONT? Thanks in advance!

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hamish225

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#3064366 16-Apr-2023 19:45

Greendrake:

I am intending to do what the OP asks about — use ONT 300 as a router with an ISP which has confirmed they allow it.

Which ISP are you with? I suggest you check with their support. I’ve never provisioned or set anyone up this way so have no idea how it works but maybe their website has some support docs that could be helpful?

*Insert big spe*dtest result here*

Greendrake

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#3064367 16-Apr-2023 19:49

Which ISP are you with? I suggest you check with their support.

Do you mean that ISP can remotely turn on/off LAN on the ONT?

I thought that the ability to establish a simple cable network link between the ONT and another device should be vested in the ONT and not depend on whether it is connected to fibre. Am I wrong on this?

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quic

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#3064369 16-Apr-2023 19:58

Hey folks,

For the benefit of everyone here, I thought it was worthwhile mentioning that Chorus are bringing an end to the RGW ONT functionality, so don't expect it to be around for much longer!

Stop sell on the functionality is 31 October 2023 and the full withdrawal is 31 October 2024 (when existing RGW ONTs will have their functionality stripped if in use).

Further details: https://sp.chorus.co.nz/product-update/consultation-outcome-and-formal-notice-rgw-ont-withdrawal

Hope this helps with some decision making here if you're thinking about using RGW mode!

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Jase2985

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#3064371 16-Apr-2023 20:02

if your plug a router into the lan port and configure it for an internet connection does it get internet? i would suspect that the ONT is not configured as a RGW by your ISP

Jase2985

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#3064372 16-Apr-2023 20:04

Greendrake:

Which ISP are you with? I suggest you check with their support.

Do you mean that ISP can remotely turn on/off LAN on the ONT?

I thought that the ability to establish a simple cable network link between the ONT and another device should be vested in the ONT and not depend on whether it is connected to fibre. Am I wrong on this?

I think the ISP has to ask chorus/enable to enable this function, the ISP doesnt have control over the ONT as its chorus' device. once enabled you should be able to connect a lan cable and login to the ONT to configure some of the more basic functions.

Greendrake

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#3064374 16-Apr-2023 20:10

Jase2985:

if your plug a router into the lan port and configure it for an internet connection does it get internet? i would suspect that the ONT is not configured as a RGW by your ISP

Look, I am not even with any ISP just yet and I am not expecting to get online with ONT right now.

At this point I am simply troubleshooting the low-level network connectivity between the ONT and the would-be router. In simple terms, when a cable is plugged to connect the ONT and another device (e.g. a laptop), I expect the Link LED to turn on just to show that there is a physical link between the two. This is not happening. Is it really dependent on the ISP?

Jase2985:

I think the ISP has to ask chorus/enable to enable this function

That's interesting. I though it was vested in the hardware and not to be turned on/off by Chorus or anyone.

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