no more free Static Ip Addresses or one off charges?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › no more free Static Ip Addresses or one off charges?

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#3082574 30-May-2023 20:57

josephhinvest: I’d prefer to have a static IP, but DDNS is serving me well enough.
Wouldn’t it be advantageous for an ISP to have as many customers on static IPs as possible, thus reducing the need to manage their pool of dynamic addresses?

Dynamic ip addresses are easier to manage.

If an ISP wants to place network concentrators and CDN nodes closer to end users then they need to break their IP space down into geographic subnets. Super easy to do but when they need to reallocate subnets to different areas, a huge pain in the ass - but the solution was simple, just get more IPs (or buy more but they are super expensive on the second-hand market) and assign new blocks to where they are needed.
Now that cant be done because one customer might still be using an IP in a /24 subnet so it cant be reused elsewhere. There are ways around it but still a pain and huge cost.

Ray Taylor

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#3082576 30-May-2023 21:04

nztim:

see more CG-NAT coming too, open ports on an internet connection is going to be a luxury

You can get open ports on CG-NAT

It depends if the ISP implements normal NAT or CG-NAT.

With CG-NAT you get a range of ports, say publicip:13000-13999 allocated to the CG-NAT ip address they issue to your router. You can then forward those ports to local devices behind your router. Outbound would use either the same source ports or another range.

samepublicip:14000-14999 goes to another customer

I dont know of many isps implementing it properly yet though but with the proliferation of ipv6, home users shouldnt need static ips in the near future. Most IP camera recorder systems already have fixed it with their own little p2p and cloud networks.

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cddt

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#3082907 31-May-2023 16:05

BigPipe used to offer a static IP for a one-off $40 charge.

If they don't I guess I'm grandfathered in until they pry it from my (probably not cold and probably not dead) hands.

boosacnoodle

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#3082913 31-May-2023 16:30

canterburydays:

thx for the replies. I had a business 2deg account with a static ip, it was a $20 one off charge, a few years ago now tho.

anyone offering fibre on ipv6? Might be free then?

2degrees does offer IPv6 on fibre.

canterburydays

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#3082956 31-May-2023 18:39

Do you know if ipv6 can be static? And if so what charge? Thx

PS I just ordered 300/100 fibre from 2deg, $62 pm, less $10 for mobile bundle

nzkc

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#3082963 31-May-2023 19:05

canterburydays:

Do you know if ipv6 can be static? And if so what charge? Thx

PS I just ordered 300/100 fibre from 2deg, $62 pm, less $10 for mobile bundle

I have a static IPv6 CIDR. But I think its bundled with the static IPv4 I have. I do not know if they offer a separate charge for IPv6 only.

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#3083065 1-Jun-2023 01:21

canterburydays:

Do you know if ipv6 can be static? And if so what charge? Thx

PS I just ordered 300/100 fibre from 2deg, $62 pm, less $10 for mobile bundle

If you pay for a static IPv4 address on 2Degrees, you get a static IPv6 /56 allocation also. Last time I checked, it was $10 per month, but some people (such as me) still have it for $5 per month grandfathered from the Snap days.

Personally, I think that there should only be static IPv6 allocations as IPv6 is not designed for dynamic addressing and if you are actually using IPv6 addresses in any normal way there will be places where the numbers have to be used rather than a delegated prefix. So a dynamic change will break your network, even if you have it fully set up for IPv6 prefix delegation as much as you possibly can. For example, I have never found any way to get my Bind 9 DNS server to receive IPv6 prefix delegations. It would probably be possible for me to write a script that was triggered by a delegation change and have it update all my DNS files and reload the DNS, but that would be a huge amount of work. And even then, my network would be broken while the change happened and would stay broken until the DNS updates propagated to all the places they are cached - I would likely need to reboot my Windows PCs to fix this. I have some IPv6 servers that are exposed to the Internet and they would be unavailable until the DNS changes reached the DNS servers their users are connecting to. It would be extremely messy.

If you look at the RFCs that define IPv6, they all assume (and in some cases mandate) static IPv6 allocations - one of the basic ideas behind IPv6 was that there would be enough IPv6 addresses to go around for everyone to have static addresses, and the only time your IPv6 addresses would change would be when you changed your Internet connection path, such as if you changed ISP. I have no idea why ISPs seem to think it is OK to have dynamic IPv6 addresses - it is not at all OK, it is just broken. The only reason that dynamic addresses work for IPv4 is that you use NAT on the border router and then have static address range allocations inside your network from the private IPv4 address ranges (192.168.0.0/16, 172.16.0.0/12, 10.0.0.0/8). The only address that changes is the external address allocated to the connection - one single IPv4 address that is not used at all internally in your network. NAT is not used for IPv6 and real public IPv6 addresses are all over your internal network. So if you are happily watching a pre-recorded TV programme on a device that is streaming it via IPv6 from a server on your network, if an IPv6 delegation change comes along, the least thing that will happen is that the stream will be disconnected as the server and device get new IPv6 addresses. It is very unlikely that auto reconnection would occur in a situation like that, and all too likely that things would only start working again properly after a lot of manual intervention and rebooting absolutely everything on your network.

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#3083132 1-Jun-2023 08:15

rb99:

I probably know the answer to this already, but if you have static ip and move isp, can you take your address with you ?

I presume not, but you never know.

You can! you just need your own ASN and Subnet, you will need to ask your old RSP to stop advertising your subnet and ASN and your new RSP to start advertising it.

It will also cost thousands of dollars :)

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#3083133 1-Jun-2023 08:17

I knew a guy who'd rung up somewhere in about 1994, "can I have a /24 please?" and they just gave him one. As far as I know he still has it!

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#3083135 1-Jun-2023 08:29

Behodar:

I knew a guy who'd rung up somewhere in about 1994, "can I have a /24 please?" and they just gave him one. As far as I know he still has it!

LOL under his own ASN ?

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#3083136 1-Jun-2023 08:31

Not sure.

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#3083354 1-Jun-2023 15:28

So what's the downside to selecting IPv6 for your connection to your ISP? Surely there's bridges between IPv4 & IPv6 so it wouldn't make any difference to your Internet connectivity or performance? And your modem/router will bridge, so you could still have IPv4 for your home network to cope with legacy equipment?

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3083393 1-Jun-2023 18:12

frankv:

So what's the downside to selecting IPv6 for your connection to your ISP? Surely there's bridges between IPv4 & IPv6 so it wouldn't make any difference to your Internet connectivity or performance? And your modem/router will bridge, so you could still have IPv4 for your home network to cope with legacy equipment?

IPv4 over IPv6 doesn't really happen. Currently, you still need an IPv4 address for most practical purposes.

So most connections are IPv4-only, or IPv4/IPv6 dual-stack.

nzkc

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#3083400 1-Jun-2023 18:23

SomeoneSomewhere:

IPv4 over IPv6 doesn't really happen. Currently, you still need an IPv4 address for most practical purposes.

So most connections are IPv4-only, or IPv4/IPv6 dual-stack.

Just want to back this up a bit...

Even the 2degrees.nz website is served on an IPv4 address only (kind of strange as they're one of the first to have supported IPV6 when Snap):

nslookup www.2degrees.nz
Server: 127.0.0.53
Address: 127.0.0.53#53

Non-authoritative answer:
www.2degrees.nz canonical name = dsu09xgs6muxj.cloudfront.net.
Name: dsu09xgs6muxj.cloudfront.net
Address: 54.192.177.18
Name: dsu09xgs6muxj.cloudfront.net
Address: 54.192.177.63
Name: dsu09xgs6muxj.cloudfront.net
Address: 54.192.177.45
Name: dsu09xgs6muxj.cloudfront.net
Address: 54.192.177.24

Sure, behind CGNAT this is fine too. And yes you could use IPV6 only to host whatever services you want behind CGNAT. However; what if the people you want to have to connect to it, eg a gaming server with your friends, are IPV4 only (e.g. doesnt Spark still only do IPV4?)

Its a shame IPV6 still isnt as ubiquitous as it should be. Even in just NZ.

alavaliant

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#3083553 2-Jun-2023 07:12

I find it interesting looking at

2degrees business plans

that the 2degrees 'Smart Fibre 900' is $94.78 and the details list static ip so I'd assume it's included for no extra cost.

vs the 2degrees personal plans has 'Smart Fibre 900' at normal price of $109 (or currently $90 on sale) without a static ip. So if I'm reading that right signing up for a business plan would be a cheaper way to get a static ip with 2degrees for the top plan? (provided you don't mind not having the prime video perk)

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