Finding a rural property with good internet

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Finding a rural property with good internet

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Tockly

353 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 88

#3165566 29-Nov-2023 11:00

+1 for Starlink.

When we first moved here we had a 40Mbps radio link and while it was ok every time the wind blew (happens a lot around here) or we had heavy rain the connection just died. Moved to Starlink and haven't looked back. I've had no issues with Teams/Zoom calls, in fact I haven't been in the office for almost three weeks and no one noticed as all our meetings are over Teams now.

littlehead

222 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 102

#3165571 29-Nov-2023 11:04

If you are looking at Mid Canterbury make sure you are not just looking at Chorus and Enable maps but also EA Networks https://www.eanetworks.co.nz/fibre/ . They have their own fibre network that covers a lot of towns and rural areas in Mid Canterbury. Your options for ISP's is a lot more limited than UFB but prices and speeds are about the same.

DS248

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#3165580 29-Nov-2023 11:11

nztim: my 2c

4G will be excellent one day and hopeless the other ...

Or in our case, unreliable (multiple dropouts) every day, at all times of the day and night ... and not "depending on how many mobiles are in the area".

Other than that it can be great; 60 - 100 MB/s down, and at times 50 - 60 up - or at other times (for multi-weeks) a quarter of that.

After 10 months of trying we at last appear to be getting the issue looked at seriously - but slowly ... now coming up to 4 weeks since being handed over to NOC and still no resolution. Just reports back of apparent issues with the local tower (which thankfully is scheduled to be upgraded in Q1 2024). We'll see ...

tim0001

274 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 146

#3165586 29-Nov-2023 11:18

Hopefully one day Amazon will provide an alternative to Starlink. Amazon "expects the network will be capable of providing broadband coverage in some parts of the world by late 2024, for an early beta phase targeted to begin in early 2025."

We've had Starlink for a couple of years and it been very good for us. However the lack of alternatives/competition is a concern for us.

raytaylor

4076 posts

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Trusted

#3167043 1-Dec-2023 22:49

Put the address into the chorus website and it will tell you the expected line speed from the most recent line test.

Actual download speeds are within 10% of what the chorus site says.

Check the neighbors to work out which direction speeds increase to work out the direction of the cabinet.

Check the speeds further away from the cabinet to see if any are faster than your target address of concern - if so then internal wiring is probably slowing it down and a master filter with dedicated jack will speed it up.

This is usually the case around the 10-30mbit area where the target address might have 15mbits but the neighbor further down the road away from the cabinet has 25mbits.

Ray Taylor

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allune

108 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 14

#3168004 4-Dec-2023 14:00

https://homes.co.nz/address/ashburton/721-winchmore-dromore-road/J42AXY

This one they said has fibre available.

Found that address in currently selling properties then cross-checked the address with the links provided here...

https://broadbandmap.nz/ - Map here shows the EA networks coverage area

https://www.eanetworks.co.nz/fibre/fibre-network-map/CheckAddress/

Now because of you I have something to dream about hehe

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quickymart

14940 posts

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#3168009 4-Dec-2023 14:13

There is a world of difference between "fibre available" to "fibre can be installed".

I've heard of real estate agents telling prospective buyers that a house in the middle of nowhere has "fibre available", just because there's a LFC cable running past - yet the property is well outside the rollout area. However prospective buyers hear "fibre available" and think it's all covered for free under the nationwide rollout...when it's anything but.

That specific address may have indicated that it's "fibre available" (I couldn't see that on the listing) but I can bet anything you'll be paying for any fibre installation to the property - and it won't be cheap.

jjnz1

1371 posts

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#3168010 4-Dec-2023 14:21

crazyscot:

CYaBro: Why don’t you trust Starlink to stick around long term?!

Their revenues are short of their growth plans; will they survive financially? What happens when the current constellation reach the end of their service lives?
I don't trust Musk to not have a whim that ends up breaking the system (cf. Twitter).
The system's use in warzones and repressive regimes makes it a target for state-funded actors.

Interesting opinion.

From your risk point of view, what have you got to lose with Starlink? Certainly provides most value, and is only getting better. FYI Starlink satellites are launched in batches of typically between 40-60, and have a life span of around 5-7 years. And with a typical SpaceX commercial launch costing $67M, each satellite would only cost around $1.5M to launch IF they were paying RRP, which we all know they are not.

I wouldn't be surprised if each reused Falcon 9 launch only costs SpaceX ~$7M USD. Therefore each satellite would only cost $120k to launch.

Very economical, and probably why they are now profitable, even with heavily investment in expanding their footprint/coverage.

Elon: "In the first three months of 2023, Starlink was slightly profitable".

Bard: Starlink has over 5,500 satellites in orbit as of November 2023. The company plans [has approval] to deploy nearly 12,000 satellites, with a possible later extension to 42,000.

Sure Russia or China could shoot down a satellite or two, but I'm guessing it would have minimal impact on the network so wouldn't even be considered as an option.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3168106 4-Dec-2023 19:02

You're not taking any risk if it's a new way of getting internet to a property you already own/use.

If you're buying a property with I can get starlink internet as a critical assumption, and you simply wouldn't be able to use the property without it - that's a much bigger risk.

I imagine its use in Ukraine has lead to several major and minor powers drafting up at least plans on how to take it down - whether or not they are practical.

crazyscot

3 posts

Wannabe Geek
+1 received by user: 4

#3168370 5-Dec-2023 14:52

jjnz1:

From your risk point of view, what have you got to lose with Starlink?

[...]

Elon: "In the first three months of 2023, Starlink was slightly profitable".

[...]

Sure Russia or China could shoot down a satellite or two, but I'm guessing it would have minimal impact on the network so wouldn't even be considered as an option.

SomeoneSomewhere hits the nail on the head. I don't want to buy a property and be dependent on Starlink for good internet. If DSL/wireless aren't up to scratch in a location, and there isn't a pathway to fibre at a price I'm willing to pay, that property isn't interesting to me.

Just turning a profit doesn't mean they're going to survive. We don't know enough about Starlink's financial plans. While it's working now, the cost of the launches and downlinks has to be recouped, and launches have to keep happening to replace end-of-life satellites. There has to be enough profit being made on an ongoing basis to fund that. If there isn't enough growth, quickly enough, that's not going to happen.

I don't worry about the odd satellite being shot down or taken out by micrometeoroids, there are already too many up there. State actors compromising the system one way or another, now that's a concern.

I'd love to see a map layer showing estimated NGA install prices...

quickymart

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#3168444 5-Dec-2023 16:13

crazyscot:

I'd love to see a map layer showing estimated NGA install prices...

There isn't one and I highly doubt you would ever see one. There are a huge number of factors that come into generating pricing for an NGA install, it's more than just a case of distance from the nearest fibre line.

Each address needs to be individually quoted - there isn't any blanket charging for an NGA installation.

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jjnz1

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#3168454 5-Dec-2023 16:41

crazyscot:

SomeoneSomewhere hits the nail on the head. I don't want to buy a property and be dependent on Starlink for good internet. If DSL/wireless aren't up to scratch in a location, and there isn't a pathway to fibre at a price I'm willing to pay, that property isn't interesting to me.

Just turning a profit doesn't mean they're going to survive. We don't know enough about Starlink's financial plans. While it's working now, the cost of the launches and downlinks has to be recouped, and launches have to keep happening to replace end-of-life satellites. There has to be enough profit being made on an ongoing basis to fund that. If there isn't enough growth, quickly enough, that's not going to happen.

I don't worry about the odd satellite being shot down or taken out by micrometeoroids, there are already too many up there. State actors compromising the system one way or another, now that's a concern.

I'd love to see a map layer showing estimated NGA install prices...

Are you saying the cost of launches, downlinks and life cycle replacements are not included in the statement "Starlink is slightly profitable"???

I would take that statement to mean - "We are a start up with very high costs that has managed to be consistently profitable in the last few qtrs, while still completing the design and initial build out a brand new network. We have 1.5M customers across our residential and commercial service offerings, as well as the US Government through our StarShield product".

I would and I know many others would also like to invest in Starlink and/or SpaceX if it becomes are publicly traded company.

I hear what you are saying in your 3 posts - you don't trust Starlink [read Elon] so for you that is not an option. Thats cool.

But for many it is a fantastic, reliable and commercially viable option that is recommended widely. it is much more likely that your local/national wireless provider ceases service than Starlink.

For rural internet, connecting fibre is out of reach for most, 4G services are hit and miss, wireless is expensive but generally consistent (and cheaper) at lower speeds.

For some rural properties, expecting no internet is probably more realistic, especially if you don't like/want to use Starlink.

Good luck.

PolicyGuy

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#3168471 5-Dec-2023 17:02

You seem rather worried that Starlink might just go bust or evaporate for some unspecified reason.
If it was my money, I'd be far more worried by the prospect of a local RSP or WISP going under than I would be worried about Starlink's future financial stability.

The fact is that Starlink works extremely well - one of my children has been using it for two or three years now and is delighted - and the corporate entity appears to be past the break-even point and on the way to ludicrous amounts of revenue.

If you can't bring yourself to trust Starlink then you could maybe try OneWeb. They seem to deal through wholesalers, in NZ that's Pivotel by the looks of things. Try https://www.pivotel.co.nz/how-to-buy/find-a-dealer/#dealer-map

If you wait until 2026(ish), Amazon Kuiper should be available too.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3168547 5-Dec-2023 19:28

WISPs are (nearly) a dime a dozen. If an individual WISP or 4G ISP goes under, it's likely that either their assets will be bought out and they keep running, or there's a competitor you can move to. Worst case, you can probably commission another nearby WISP to put up the towers to get you service for a moderate price.

This also applies if you fall out with the owners and they deny you service, or you otherwise get stuck in a bureaucratic SNAFU where everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else. And you can probably still get hold of someone with the power to make a decision to work something out.

Starlink is a corporate single-point-of-failure with no/very few credible alternatives, and IIRC reportedly questionable customer support, plus a CEO who likes grandstanding. The chances of them just deciding "we're not selling to you", and you having no recourse other than whinging to chatbots, is disconcertingly high.

OneWeb and Kuiper have most of the Starlink questions with also much more questionable long-term chances, given one has already filed for bankruptcy protection and the other hasn't launched.

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