Really good overview of IPv6

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#425765 10-Jan-2011 14:50

wjw:

Widespread adoption won't happen that quickly, the issue right now is there is no compelling reason for consumers to start using v6 and until that happens there is no reason for most content providers to change. I would say widespread adoption is still 3 - 5 years away

IPv6 is going to be great for our business. No more bullsh!t unreliable site to site VPNs or complicated double homed servers or other BS like that. Can access any computer via RDP over the internet from another ipv6 connection, its going to be sooo much easier.

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Beccara

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#425779 10-Jan-2011 15:20

Doesn't one of the Apple Mac remoting services (.mac??) use tunneled v6 to do the main linking?

wjw

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#425792 10-Jan-2011 15:45

Beccara: Consumers will drive adoption when ISP's are forced to do large scale nat'ing of their new clients due to v4 IP shortages, When public IP's on your broadband account are $20+ a month on top of your normal fees. ISP's will drive adoption when their support centers are swamped with calls complaining that their XBOX360/PS3/Whatever is complaining about NAT, Or SIP call's no longer work or any of the billion other reasons double NAT will mess with things.

IANA runout will cause the ISP's and large companies to start looking at and implementing v6, RIR runout will trigger ISP's and hardware vendors to start supporting it and publicly offering it. ISP v4 runout will cause consumers to look at their own CPE.

This will all take time though, right now there is nothing my Grandad can buy off the shelf that will give him IPv6 @ home. Dynalink have a beta firmware available, linksys WRT's can be hacked... it's going to be I'd say at least another 12 - 18 months before there are any 'real' consumer priced CPE's on the shelf.

Widespread adoption can't be 3-5 years away, Too much breaks with the LSN needed to extend v4's life out till then. It'll be a waterfall effect as each of the tiers finds the issue of not doing v6 is harder than doing v6

I have native v6 at home, but how many people can say that? What do I gain right now from having IPv6 at home? nothing. What will I gain in the future? well that depends on application developers and content providers. I agree with you sort of IPv6 will only start to take off once Fred Blogs says he can't access the latest and greatest application or website. Not from his v4 stuff breaking.

Beccara

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#425797 10-Jan-2011 15:59

wjw:
Beccara: Consumers will drive adoption when ISP's are forced to do large scale nat'ing of their new clients due to v4 IP shortages, When public IP's on your broadband account are $20+ a month on top of your normal fees. ISP's will drive adoption when their support centers are swamped with calls complaining that their XBOX360/PS3/Whatever is complaining about NAT, Or SIP call's no longer work or any of the billion other reasons double NAT will mess with things.

IANA runout will cause the ISP's and large companies to start looking at and implementing v6, RIR runout will trigger ISP's and hardware vendors to start supporting it and publicly offering it. ISP v4 runout will cause consumers to look at their own CPE.

This will all take time though, right now there is nothing my Grandad can buy off the shelf that will give him IPv6 @ home. Dynalink have a beta firmware available, linksys WRT's can be hacked... it's going to be I'd say at least another 12 - 18 months before there are any 'real' consumer priced CPE's on the shelf.

Widespread adoption can't be 3-5 years away, Too much breaks with the LSN needed to extend v4's life out till then. It'll be a waterfall effect as each of the tiers finds the issue of not doing v6 is harder than doing v6

I have native v6 at home, but how many people can say that? What do I gain right now from having IPv6 at home? nothing. What will I gain in the future? well that depends on application developers and content providers. I agree with you sort of IPv6 will only start to take off once Fred Blogs says he can't access the latest and greatest application or website. Not from his v4 stuff breaking.

12-18 months is about when RIR's will start running out (Personally think APNIC will runout by the middle of the year)

v6 offer little right now to the end user, v6 will offer alot when ISP's are LSN'ing big chunks of clients. It's not just about what websites you can and can't access, think about just how much gear at home is Internet enabled and how much of that gear requires inbound connections to operate.

Once XYZ ISP has no more v4 IP's left they have a couple of options, The one that Cisco/Juniper are gearing up for is LSN. There is NAT64/DNS64 but I dont personally see that being taken up that much. With LSN off the top of my head your XBOX/Playstation will moan about the NAT type, SIP will need STUN to work correctly, Forget about running your SMTP/FTP server or any kind of server locally and your P2P apps will cry (not to mention ISP's doing connection limits to try and avoid the port problem of LSN, say good bye to 500 connection's per torrent)

This is what will drive adoption, People's gear at home complaining about NAT type or unable to accept incoming connections, Most will be patched to work with v6 (Looking at you Sony/MS) so your only way to get it to work correctly is to goto v6 because your ISP either cant offer you public v4 or wants to charge you for it

thorax

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#425856 10-Jan-2011 18:51

This was really interesting too

binarybrother

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#426404 12-Jan-2011 09:24

What I think a more likely scenario with Ipv6

Businesses are looking at the cost of IPv6 and thinking what's in it for me right now? It's going to cost a bomb to move to it and what pay back do I get? Well none... All my competitors are at best playing with IPv6 and most haven't even bothered. None of the major ISPs are moving there yet. None of my customers care about ipv6 because they're not buying that, they're buying Internet access.

So we'll likely see LSN and tunnelling start to become more prevalent. Public ipv4 addresses will become more valuable and we'll likely see a new business model emerging for ISPs where they can actually start charging more for public IPV4 addresses. For some ISPs this will be a necessity but for others (such as incumbents) who have planned ahead and have enough V4 allocation it will likely initially provide a new revenue stream for them which they can easily justify as there will be plenty of press coverage and ISPs who are complaining and unable to grow due to lack of v4 resource. Consolidation of ISPs may even start to occur to achieve efficiencies of scale when it comes to available IPv4 allocations.

ISPs will start offering 'cheaper' NAT based internet services for those customer's who don't want to pay extra for a IPv4 address. A wonderful side affect for ISPs will be the fact they will suddenly have a lot more control over things like P2P and other bandwidth hogging applications. The flip side is those new LSN devices might cause some real head aches and service outages for them to begin with. It will then become a battle between LSN, appliance vendors and the P2P software developers with move and counter move.

Efficiency improvements in IPv4 allocation and use will start to occur over time. There will be motivation now for this to occur as IPv4 addresses will become more valuable. Maybe some of those initial /8 allocations to corporate/organisations get re-allocated?

At some point in the next few years the economics of moving to IPv6 start to make sense. More vendors are supporting it, early adopters have ironed out some of the bugs and newly sold CPE is finally supporting it. Dual stack configurations start to emerge in the backbone provider networks and newly deployed services and networks start to use IPv6 natively.

2011 will come and go without the Internet sky falling and the Internet will just evolve to work around the lack of 'free' IPv4 address blocks.

hamish225

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#426552 12-Jan-2011 15:22

so um, what do i do? lol

i just use the internet...

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Gordy7

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#426559 12-Jan-2011 15:37

Yep. My question too.

I have half a dozen computers and gadgets on 192.168.1.etc. around home.

So I am unlikely to run out of IPv4 around home.

My internet router can do IPv4 and IPv6 and the Wan address is issued by my ISP.

Seems I do not need to do anything.

Gordy

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raytaylor

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#426623 12-Jan-2011 19:59

to the above

1) You must enable ipv6 on all your computers
2) Your isp must issue your router an ipv6 address

Otherwise, you will only be able to access ipv4 websites. There are tunneling systems built into windows vista and 7 that send ipv6 data through an ipv4 tunnel but i dont know if they work for general internet access.

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hamish225

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#426662 12-Jan-2011 22:10

how do we get an ipv6 address?

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kyhwana2

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#426664 12-Jan-2011 22:14

hamish225: how do we get an ipv6 address?

You get a /56 (or /64) from your ISP ( which is lets just say, a LOT) , just like you currently get a single IPv4 address from your ISP currently. Although soon you'll only get a private IPv4 address from your ISP when they run out, so you'll end up double NATed (which is bad)

So once your ISP does ipv6, every computer/tv/phone/etc in your house will get a public IPv6 address.

cyril7

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#426719 13-Jan-2011 07:58

Anyone got any info on modems that support v6, as I understand it the current firmware on 99% of them only support v4, and I presume (with new firmware) if they have been handed a v6 address subnet then the NAT router is bypassed?

Cyril

Gordy7

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#426722 13-Jan-2011 08:25

>>So once your ISP does ipv6, every computer/tv/phone/etc in your house will get a public IPv6 address.

So everything in your house will have a public IPv6 address.

What protection will your home devices have from network Worms and Snooping?

With IPv4 router you had an ISP issued public WAN and a home LAN which seems an easy boundary for firewalls and protection.

What will be the organisation and protection options/methods with IPv6 public and private addressing (which will now be all public)?

Gordy

My first ever AM radio network connection was with a 1MHz AM crystal(OA91) radio receiver.

Beccara

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#426724 13-Jan-2011 08:30

Repeat after me, "NAT is not a firewall". Everything will still have to flow via your router at home which should have a nice real firewall on it

kyhwana2

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#426736 13-Jan-2011 08:52

NAT is.. what Beccara said. :)

Your router will need to have a firewall (most of them have v4 ones these days) that will let you firewall of certain ports/boxes/etc.

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