Brightspark fibre installation woes / lack of knowledge

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#431393 26-Jan-2011 13:45

It's really much harder to retro fit structured cabling after the house is finished, it actually saves you money in the long run to do it up front.

snnet

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#431486 26-Jan-2011 16:44

Zeon: Its a good thing that at least you got star wiring done, if you have got it daisy chained like some sh!thouse electricians do you would have to literally pull off the gib from the walls to do proper star wiring so that means you'd be needing to pay for gib stoppers, plasterers and painters to come back lol.

But TBH in this day and age I would only ever put proper structured cabling in for a new home. The cost difference is negligible to do it all up front.

I also wonder when any other ISPs will begin offering services over Telecom Wholesale's FTTH program?

I kind of resent your remarks here. Remember it's not always the electricians that decide to daisy chain. It's the client not wanting to spend the extra few dollars on a star wired installation.

Beccara

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#431492 26-Jan-2011 16:50

I've lost count the number of times I've seen a sparky/cable guy run a daisy chain and run it right next to the main TPS aswell. There are alot of cowboys out there!

snnet

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#431495 26-Jan-2011 16:52

Beccara: I've lost count the number of times I've seen a sparky/cable guy run a daisy chain and run it right next to the main TPS aswell. There are alot of cowboys out there!

Should report them to the EWRB and put a stop to that crap. Are they registered? i'd guess not if they're willing to potentially lose their license. I've never EVER done anything like that, not only is it illegal it can also cause annoying interference on any low voltage application.

TechSol

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#431683 27-Jan-2011 09:10

snnet:
Beccara: I've lost count the number of times I've seen a sparky/cable guy run a daisy chain and run it right next to the main TPS aswell. There are alot of cowboys out there!

Should report them to the EWRB and put a stop to that crap. Are they registered? i'd guess not if they're willing to potentially lose their license. I've never EVER done anything like that, not only is it illegal it can also cause annoying interference on any low voltage application.

there are a lot of Category rated cables that are also 230v insulation rated........ the illegality is far less of a concern to me than the interferance

ChrisNZL

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#431742 27-Jan-2011 10:38

I just got a callback from Chorus (had requested a callback three days ago through Chorus, nothing to do with WorldxChange)...

Chorus was under the impression that I had said that WorldxChange was unable to connect me. When all I had asked about initially was whether my existing piping could be used or not. I tried to explain this but that's not what they were calling about. So I corrected the rep on the phone, saying that WorldxChange can connect me, to which they said, "Okay, goodbye," and hung up. Awesome.

But anyway... electrician tomorrow! And then a call to WorldxChange after that to get Chorus out here.

Creator of Tallowmere. Working on Tallowmere 2.

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snnet

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#431920 27-Jan-2011 19:40

Evilg:
snnet:
Beccara: I've lost count the number of times I've seen a sparky/cable guy run a daisy chain and run it right next to the main TPS aswell. There are alot of cowboys out there!

Should report them to the EWRB and put a stop to that crap. Are they registered? i'd guess not if they're willing to potentially lose their license. I've never EVER done anything like that, not only is it illegal it can also cause annoying interference on any low voltage application.

there are a lot of Category rated cables that are also 230v insulation rated........ the illegality is far less of a concern to me than the interferance

The only ones I've seen that are rated for 230v are only designed to enter the same enclosure as 230v, not specifically run with 230v...

webwat

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#432235 28-Jan-2011 15:10

ChrisNZL: Great, thank you, maverick. Web-based communication really does trump phone communication sometimes.

My electrician suggested doing the full wiring as an option, but I figured I'd just get it done if it was ever truly needed (wifi works well enough). But I imagined this would've been a few years down the track, not a few weeks!

So I've ended up wasting about $400-500 on copper BT phone jacks and stuff due to lack of communication/information. Might chase up my real estate agent / subdivision dev/engineer about this.

Thanks for the link, sbiddle. I don't know about it being a requirement, but highly recommended certainly. Not exactly a health issue if your house doesn't have RJ45 jacks (apart from headaches later on), but maybe it will be one day.

If you expect to use wifi, dont forget to get an ethernet jack at each location that you might want to install a wifi accesspoint. Since accesspoints can be mounted high on the wall, you might be able to make a couple of points like that to have either wifi or security camera as needed in future.

Really hard to understand why the electrician recommended structured cabling as an "option", when its actually the standard. Even if you keep the BT outlets for phones, you will always need some ethernet points somewhere even if its just for your wifi accesspoints. A few more will improve your house value and allow you to get around any wifi problems. And get a big enough cabinet to install any routers, switches and phone terminals that you may need in future.

Time to find a new industry!

snnet

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#432265 28-Jan-2011 16:00

webwat:
ChrisNZL: Great, thank you, maverick. Web-based communication really does trump phone communication sometimes.

My electrician suggested doing the full wiring as an option, but I figured I'd just get it done if it was ever truly needed (wifi works well enough). But I imagined this would've been a few years down the track, not a few weeks!

So I've ended up wasting about $400-500 on copper BT phone jacks and stuff due to lack of communication/information. Might chase up my real estate agent / subdivision dev/engineer about this.

Thanks for the link, sbiddle. I don't know about it being a requirement, but highly recommended certainly. Not exactly a health issue if your house doesn't have RJ45 jacks (apart from headaches later on), but maybe it will be one day.

If you expect to use wifi, dont forget to get an ethernet jack at each location that you might want to install a wifi accesspoint. Since accesspoints can be mounted high on the wall, you might be able to make a couple of points like that to have either wifi or security camera as needed in future.

Really hard to understand why the electrician recommended structured cabling as an "option", when its actually the standard. Even if you keep the BT outlets for phones, you will always need some ethernet points somewhere even if its just for your wifi accesspoints. A few more will improve your house value and allow you to get around any wifi problems. And get a big enough cabinet to install any routers, switches and phone terminals that you may need in future.

As far as I've read it was an "option" because nobody told anybody that the area was fibre-only, right?...

As an electrician myself, I've dealt with customers only wanting the pure basic set up- though because I do spend time doing things with fibre I may recognise a fibre only subdivision, a lot of us don't. We rely on developers and clients to tell us. A lot of us run the telecom undergrounds as well at the same time as power and often water and gas, and I've normally done that after the gib has gone on- so I can see how it would be very easy to miss out on.

All we can do is recommend star wiring systems as being the way of the future to future proof things, get ready for FTTH etc- sometimes they want this, often they do not see the point in spending more at all. Unfortunately, we can't force them. And sometimes, when they don't opt for it, this happens.

ChrisNZL

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#432320 28-Jan-2011 17:14

Yep, spot on, snnet. Fibre hadn't even crossed my mind as a possibility for my house when deciding stuff with the electrician. Wasn't really thinking about the future much, and didn't seem necessary for the present (again, wifi seemed good enough for me). Only after I moved in did I find out that this was a requirement if I wanted fixed-line Internet. Oh well.

Electrician's done most of the Ethernet wiring today. Installed this in my garage:

Looks ample enough to hold stuff, 70cm x 36cm. Power point's on the bottom. On Tuesday they'll install the patch panel and the RJ45 connectors on the wall points (their supplier let them down today...). Getting twin RJ45s in each bedroom and in my lounge, replacing the copper BT points. Was easy enough for them to snake down the Ethernet cables alongside the existing cables. And now there's two Ethernet cables protruding from the brickwork outside, instead of just one. 12 Ethernet cables all up! Guess I'll be pretty future-proofed after this.

Not going for any elevated points; my experiences with wifi devices show that ground/desk level is fine for this house. Not worried about mounted security cameras 'cause I'm home 24/7 almost and not overly paranoid.

So my wall outlets used to be aerial + BT, but they're now going to be aerial + RJ45x2. They look like this at the moment:

Hopefully will call WorldxChange on Tuesday then after the sparky finishes up. And I'll post another pic of the data box once it's all prettied up.

Creator of Tallowmere. Working on Tallowmere 2.

hamish225

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#432338 28-Jan-2011 17:57

slightly off topic, but do you guys think that about 12 years ago (which was when our house was built) there were many houses being star wired like this? because ours is just daisy chained >.<

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Zeon

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#432341 28-Jan-2011 17:59

12 years ago na, it was probably never a consideration. 5 years ago then yes it should have had star wiring.

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sbiddle

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#432353 28-Jan-2011 18:31

Zeon: 12 years ago na, it was probably never a consideration. 5 years ago then yes it should have had star wiring.

By the late 90's Telecom had already publically advised against any form of daisy chain cabling and their PTC specs for BT based phone installations all advise that star wiring with 4 pair cable is the preferred option. By the early 2000's all the PTC's had been upgraded to make this even clearer as the message didn't seem to be getting through and PTC103 was updated again in 2003.

There were also numerous PTC's based on AS/NZ standards for SOHO wiring that detailed the requirements for structured cabling solutions. This became PTC106 in 2003 and was updated to relfect the TCF changes in 2010.

There is quite honestly no excuse for any house that's been built in the last 10 years having anything but star wiring - but the reality is to this day there are still people building new houses running looped wiring.

cyril7

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#432379 28-Jan-2011 19:29

Hi, I remember advising sparkies and wiring homes for star wired cat5e back before 1996, infact in that year we purchased a beach house that needed complete refurbishment, it got the full treatment, totally unheard of back then, just the normal expected today.

Cheers
Cyril

richms

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#432490 28-Jan-2011 23:51

Are you serious that you have bought and built and only now are finding that you have zero choice of ISP? Ouch. That has to suck that you are stuck now.

Surely this limitation of the section should have been made very very clear by the developer that sold it to you, if I was in that situation I would be screaming at them now and getting a lawyer onto sorting it out.

Richard rich.ms

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