Save the CC $50k...

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#35479 11-May-2006 09:47

Speaking of securing WiFi, has anyone else noticed how performance drops when you apply WPA?

WEP too, but not as much.

Juha

tonyhughes

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#35480 11-May-2006 09:50

Yes, WPA degrades the heck out of my system :-(

JonC

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#35481 11-May-2006 09:53

I think WiFi is great, but at the moment you certainly can't rely upon getting a free wifi AP everywhere you go so can't be a replacement for a cell-phone network. Even with more and more people having WiFi APs in their homes, coverage will never be reliable and people will get smarter and lock them down.

DonGould: 1. I don't personally see how open wifi is a security issue if you've got your machines set up properly (or if you're like me, to a known standard). Do you care to explain that in more detail? At present it all seems like industry FUD to me.

Apart from the fact people can use up your data cap, as mentioned before, what if someone is roaming around with a laptop and a copy of netstumbler, picks up your free WiFI AP and decides to go surfing for kiddy porn (or sends out a million spam emails, etc....) and it gets traced back to your internet connection? I'm guessing you wouldn't get in trouble, but it gives cover to people who use the internet for malicious purposes.

3. My point was that open wifi has an impact... every meeting I go to for a local lug, people boast about the number of open wifi nodes they've been picking up on. This suggests to me that people simply don't care.

Or most people don't know how to secure their Wifi because it's a PITA and all wifi routers come with the security off. If ultimate geek chiefie can't be bothered to implement encryption on his WIFI AP, I'm guessing most people can't be bothered.

Edit: I re-read chiefie's post and see he has issues with incompatibility. I think unsecured APs will be a thing of the past when people figure out what's going on....

4. I see open ip becoming a draw card in cafes, malls, etc. It's to hard to have secured wifi. My locals can get a wifi/10gb dsl and it costs them less than $25/week to just give the service away to customers. I now I'd be inclined to drink more coffee if I was reading the news on my pda. Especially if I can catch up with people via skype.

Here, I definitely agree with you - if run as a part of a business then it's a great idea. Personally, I'd like to see a city council or a company decide to set up WiFi access across a city - mount access points to telephone poles, etc. But that would have to be a paid-for service. Would provide an alternative to cable and DSL for internet access and could also be used for VOIP calls if you have the right sort of handset. Did everyone see the news though that T-Mobile (cell-phone company) in the UK are going to sell 3G data cards for laptops on an unlimited bandwidth plan, BUT they will be blocking people from using VOIP and IM. They see it as a threat to their cell-phone business and will block it until they can figure a way of charging people for it.

JonC

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#35482 11-May-2006 09:54

juha: Speaking of securing WiFi, has anyone else noticed how performance drops when you apply WPA?

WEP too, but not as much.

Are you talking bandwidth or CPU?

juha

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#35483 11-May-2006 09:56

JonC: Are you talking bandwidth or CPU?

Overall performance - enabling WAP slows down your WiFi a lot.

Juha

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#35485 11-May-2006 10:04

Forgot to mention a totally lo-tech "security" measure for WiFi:

Turn down the power output.

Most of the time, you'll be close enough to the AP without having to have the power output knob turned to 11.

Juha

JonC

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#35486 11-May-2006 10:05

I just did a quick test and it doesn't seem to make a difference to my broadband connection speed. Maybe it would make a difference if I were moving large files on the internal wireless network. But I don't do that very often and if I did I think I'd break out the cables and get 100Mbps rather than 54 tops over WiFi.

I can't say I've noticed my computer slowing down a lot with WPA on - task manager doesn't seem to indicate anything chewing through CPU - I might try doing without WPA for a while and see if I notice the difference.

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#35487 11-May-2006 10:09

I took the lo-tech approach as well. Turned down the power output and I don't advertise my SSID. I live in a concrete house and can not detect my AP anywhere outside. I think I would notice if someone pulled up outside in a car with a big Yargi sticking out the window.

juha

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#35488 11-May-2006 10:09

JonC: I just did a quick test and it doesn't seem to make a difference to my broadband connection speed. Maybe it would make a difference if I were moving large files on the internal wireless network. But I don't do that very often and if I did I think I'd break out the cables and get 100Mbps rather than 54 tops over WiFi.

I can't say I've noticed my computer slowing down a lot with WPA on - task manager doesn't seem to indicate anything chewing through CPU - I might try doing without WPA for a while and see if I notice the difference.

Yeah, you're not going to see a difference on the Internet connection side of things. It's more when you use it as a wireless router for your home network. CPU usage on client computers doesn't seem to be an issue, but I don't know what it's like on the router.

Juha

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#35490 11-May-2006 10:15

JonC: If ultimate geek chiefie can't be bothered to implement encryption on his WIFI AP, I'm guessing most people can't be bothered.

hmmm... not sure i like the tone of that saying, but the truth is, i won't want a poor performaning WIFI when using WEP/WPA. Sure the set up that i have at the moment is not ideal, but it should stop most people from piggy back at my AP. and only few smarter people might figure out the MAC spoof. I'll get to that when that happen. And I also limit the number of DHCP IP addresses available, and each IP is allocated to a specific MAC. So if there is any MAC spoofing, the computers will pick up and let me know the IP has been taken.

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JonC

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#35491 11-May-2006 10:21

chiefie:

hmmm... not sure i like the tone of that saying, but the truth is, i won't want a poor performaning WIFI when using WEP/WPA. Sure the set up that i have at the moment is not ideal, but it should stop most people from piggy back at my AP. and only few smarter people might figure out the MAC spoof. I'll get to that when that happen. And I also limit the number of DHCP IP addresses available, and each IP is allocated to a specific MAC. So if there is any MAC spoofing, the computers will pick up and let me know the IP has been taken.

Sorry I didn't read your post properly - I edited my previous comment. I was skimming and just saw the "that way i don't have to fiddle with WEP or WPA" bit. Sounds like you have a pretty good security setup.

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#35492 11-May-2006 10:24

chiefie:
JonC: If ultimate geek chiefie can't be bothered to implement encryption on his WIFI AP, I'm guessing most people can't be bothered.

hmmm... not sure i like the tone of that saying, but the truth is, i won't want a poor performaning WIFI when using WEP/WPA.

I think that poster was trying to say "if geeks dont do it, how can we expect (L)users to do it" ? (With zero malice intended from what I can tell).
Probably picked your post as a close-to-home example.

chiefie

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#35493 11-May-2006 10:26

JonC: Sorry I didn't read your post properly - I edited my previous comment. I was skimming and just saw the "that way i don't have to fiddle with WEP or WPA" bit. Sounds like you have a pretty good security setup.

it's cool. not offended or anything :-)

I know to some of you who are very cautious with security, my set up is not ideal, but the area i'm in, it is pretty okay to assume that there is not rocket scientist around here, doing hacking and spoofing.... (yet)... LOL

for what it is doing now, is sufficient for our usage at home. ideally, i still prefer wired connection. but not always the most elegant and easiet.

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DonGould

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#35511 11-May-2006 12:45

Info on the TMobile thing with 3g cards was interesting. VoIP --> VPN Tunnel --> MyUnlimitedBoxAtHome --> rest of the world... humm. No brainer.

This week there have been two beatings of bus drivers by teen aged girls in Christchurch... then there was me using my PDA to chat to my Dad on Skype... Humm.... another no brainer.

The mall has had this open AP for months now and it's been well advertised on a number of geek lists yet it's still open. I've had my APs open for months and I'm still waiting for the geeks to show up with their yargies and free beer... hummm another no brainer.

I'm sure the camera I'm going to put on my antenna poll pointed at the street will capture pictures of the geek sitting in his car tossing off to kiddie porn. When the police get here I'll be able to give them a full account. When they get done with the geek they can come back and deal with the people who left a shpping trolly in my frount neighbours yard (I have had a number of calls about that issue) they can do something about the guys who do burn outs on the road out side my house. They can deal to the people who smashed up my neighbours mail boxes and something about the taggers. hummm.... of all those people it's a bit of a no brainer as to which one I care least about.

Now someone made mention of wifi being a replacement to mobile networks... hummm.... my projection was that the growth in wifi is going to impact on the demand and use for another mobile network. We already have two and they're having trouble working out how to deliver data and not loose call revenue now. Having had a read of this threed I suggest that the CC has it's answer on why we're not seeing aother mobile network anytime soon.

How do you tell someone that they are welcome to use your ap for a bit of net surfing? Leave it open? We don't provide education in our schools or homes about this issue yet because it's to new.

From my up bringing I know that you are always welcome to walk in to a church and pray. You are always welcome to walk in to a library and read and you should always expect help at a police station. If the TV is on in anyone of these places you should watch. Water is free, beer is not and you should always ask for a glass. You should wash and dry your glass and return it. We know these things, we don't put up signs, we tech our children.

How do you give away some data? Post a sign on the front fence? Make your SSID=FreeNode ? Do you tell other people it's NOT a free node by locking it down?

Cheers Don

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#35512 11-May-2006 12:57

WiFi will never seriously challenge mobiles in NZ in the forseeable future. While getting a provider like The Cloud in NZ would be cool we simply don't have the population base or usage to support it. CafeNet has very good coverage in the Wgtn CBD and while it makes money it has it's own fibre backhaul for most of the sites. If you start having to factor in DSL connections everywhere to run a backhaul you start looking at big $$ and sites that will be losing money on a montly basis.

WiMax promises to deliver but whether it will is anybody's guess..

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