What happens if you are not on either UFB or RBI?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › What happens if you are not on either UFB or RBI?

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Cymro

283 posts

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#685910 14-Sep-2012 09:47

Geektastic:
I see a very clever ad on TV currently exploiting just that with a conversation with an elderly Hungarian man about how broadband costs twice as much in NZ as it does in Hungary! Nice work by whichever agency created that campaign.

I hate stuff like this, because it's very easy to get a catchy soundbite without presenting the true context.

For example, the average net monthly wage in Hungary is NZ$783 (or 141,172 HUF).

In New Zealand, if you were on minimum wage your net monthly salary would be NZ$1,972

So the truth is, in real terms Broadband in New Zealand is significantly cheaper than in Hungary.

Edit: and to reference the other countries in that advertising:
Average net monthly wage in Estonia is NZ$1,104
Average net monthly wage in Slovakia is NZ$1,023

So still around half of someone on minimum wage in New Zealand.

#WillMcAvoy

chevrolux

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#685932 14-Sep-2012 11:22

I don't know why people continue to harp on about how cheap broadband is in other parts of the world. If are so dam annoyed about it go to the freken country that has the cheap broadband and be done with it! The fact is if people want the nice big quiet section in a rural area there are going to be compromises. Do you expect a bus route to be made out to the small little town just because there are bus routes all over wellington. No. Do you expect the council to get mains water out to a group of 5 houses in the middle of nowhere just because thats what the city has. No. So again, why expect Chorus/Vodafone/whoever to build an expensive network out to the small town to deliver speeds the same as in the city.
I have just been helping out a small community who have had this same issue. No current broadband and no plan to bring RBI in to the area. They are a community of 30-odd houses and it currently has a fiber fed cabinet. Thing is it is an old cabinet and the fiber is only there for DTLM voice. To get an ISAM (or even DSLAM) installed in this location it meant a new cabinet which starts around $20k. Hence, Chorus are not prepared to spend that money for only 30 customers.
Instead we installed a wireless link back to Palmerston North with a 100Mbps fiber on the end of it and the residents now enjoy 5Mbps (most of the time) each for less than $50/month. Most of them have even ditched the landline and gone to VoIP.
Sounds like your area is a prime candidate for a fixed wireless operator to get a repeater in there and give you (and surrounding neighbours) some decent broadband.

Nebbie

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#686061 14-Sep-2012 15:36

chevrolux: I don't know why people continue to harp on about how cheap broadband is in other parts of the world. If are so dam annoyed about it go to the freken country that has the cheap broadband and be done with it!.

Agreed, This might sound geeky but for me its part of my requirements to have a fast Internet connection before I move anywhere I first check to see what the possible speed might to be. I have turned down living in so many places just becuase broadband was bad or did not exist my min requirement is 10-15mbit min.

As for cheep broadband well I think in NZ we have done extremely well offering cheap plans to residential users with larger data caps without the price of international transit changing much.
Broadband in NZ can not be compared to anywhere else in the world alot of our limitations is due to geographic location on this planet. NZ Tops off as being one of the most expensive places in the world to buy international transit and will always remain this way.

As for rural locations are always going to be slightly left in the dark behind the rest of the urban areas mostly becuase of simple economics its just not feasible to speed a lot of $$$$ for just a few customers and get very little return. I understand their pain but yes theres pros and conns living in a urban area unfortunately life dose not give you everything you want.

Unless you won the Big Wednesday $27m then you can build your own fiber to the nearest phone exchange and get 1gbit 1:1 bandwidth from somewhere..... /me crys $27m oh that would be nice...

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Geektastic

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#686090 14-Sep-2012 16:54

NonprayingMantis: I tell you what.

I'll get you a broadband connection in a rural area that is just as good and cheap as a central auckland one if you can get me a flat 1000m^2 section of land in central auckland that is just as cheap as a flat 1000m^2 of rural land.

That is not really very relevant, as land value is not particularly dictated by internet speed as is clear from the fact that the 1000 sq metres in Auckland would still be more expensive than the rural equivalent if both had no internet.

I do have a little over 72,000 sq meters 80 km from Welly you can make an offer for though...

Geektastic

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#686097 14-Sep-2012 17:05

Nebbie:
chevrolux: I don't know why people continue to harp on about how cheap broadband is in other parts of the world. If are so dam annoyed about it go to the freken country that has the cheap broadband and be done with it!.

Agreed, This might sound geeky but for me its part of my requirements to have a fast Internet connection before I move anywhere I first check to see what the possible speed might to be. I have turned down living in so many places just becuase broadband was bad or did not exist my min requirement is 10-15mbit min.

As for cheep broadband well I think in NZ we have done extremely well offering cheap plans to residential users with larger data caps without the price of international transit changing much.
Broadband in NZ can not be compared to anywhere else in the world alot of our limitations is due to geographic location on this planet. NZ Tops off as being one of the most expensive places in the world to buy international transit and will always remain this way.

As for rural locations are always going to be slightly left in the dark behind the rest of the urban areas mostly becuase of simple economics its just not feasible to speed a lot of $$$$ for just a few customers and get very little return. I understand their pain but yes theres pros and conns living in a urban area unfortunately life dose not give you everything you want.

Unless you won the Big Wednesday $27m then you can build your own fiber to the nearest phone exchange and get 1gbit 1:1 bandwidth from somewhere..... /me crys $27m oh that would be nice...

I prefer to strive to improve things in THIS country by ensuring that those who provide these things know that the bar is higher than they have so far achieved.

What's the point in accepting less? It's not in my nature to accept less. I expect a great deal more than that from those who work for me and from those who provide me with things I am paying for and I believe they have a right to expect that from me when they are employing my services.

It's not in my nature to concern myself with excuses - I expect people to figure out a way. If this means taxes being used to fund another cable to NZ then so be it - better for the economy in the future than many other uses of the money.

And of course we all have many requirements in buying a home for our families to live in - I know few wives who would be persuaded to give up a house they have fallen in love with because the internet speed is too slow and fewer husbands brave enough to suggest it! ;-)

oxnsox

1923 posts

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#686098 14-Sep-2012 17:06

Since you've got 'neighbours' in a similar position, have you contacted any of them to see what they would pay for a better solution. You've stated you'd put $1200 in for a better connection, if you get enough neighbours onboard with a similar commitment you'll be able to talk to others about a solution....

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

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#686099 14-Sep-2012 17:07

Geektastic:
NonprayingMantis: I tell you what.

I'll get you a broadband connection in a rural area that is just as good and cheap as a central auckland one if you can get me a flat 1000m^2 section of land in central auckland that is just as cheap as a flat 1000m^2 of rural land.

That is not really very relevant, as land value is not particularly dictated by internet speed as is clear from the fact that the 1000 sq metres in Auckland would still be more expensive than the rural equivalent if both had no internet.

I do have a little over 72,000 sq meters 80 km from Welly you can make an offer for though...

the point is that some things are naturally better/cheaper in rural areas, some things natrually better/cheaper in urban areas.

You don't hear urban people moaning about how it is so unfair that rural property is so cheap and demanding that the government should step in to ensure urban property is priced the same as rural, so why do rural people do the same thing with internet, demanding that the government fund rural internet to bring it to the same level as urban?

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webwat

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#690065 23-Sep-2012 01:07

Geektastic:
NonprayingMantis: I tell you what.

I'll get you a broadband connection in a rural area that is just as good and cheap as a central auckland one if you can get me a flat 1000m^2 section of land in central auckland that is just as cheap as a flat 1000m^2 of rural land.

That is not really very relevant, as land value is not particularly dictated by internet speed as is clear from the fact that the 1000 sq metres in Auckland would still be more expensive than the rural equivalent if both had no internet.

I do have a little over 72,000 sq meters 80 km from Welly you can make an offer for though...

Its perfectly relevant. The land in Auckland is more valuable, so we cram a million people onto it and a few skyscrapers to concentrate the business in the CBD. Naturally fibre to a building of 1000 users or several companies with busy networks will have its costs spread over a lot more users and have a return on investment.

Geektastic:
raindr: Is your ADSL connection 0.98Mbit, or are your actual speeds 0.98 Mbit?
Conklins can be configured with a lot less upstream speed than you'd expect - IIRC I saw 12-20 customers sharing 2Mbit upstream link. My knowledge is very dated, (7 years), but you might find that if others move off the conklin to UFB, you could get a bigger share of the uplink. Cold comfort compared to UFB of course.

I don't know. That was the speed I got on Speedtest.

It varies - sometimes it is 3 Mbps and sometimes as low as 0.98.

I don't think anyone on that cabinet will move to UFB as we would all be (just) outside the area. Indeed, if they build more houses hereabouts, they will get more people on the cabinet rather than less!

Ask your ISP if they can escalate the problem to look at whether more bandwidth can be added. Conklins that still work do have up to 8megs total bandwidth, and might be able to add another E1 link to do that. Alcatel looks at the options and sometimes will get some improvement.

Time to find a new industry!

Geektastic

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#690104 23-Sep-2012 11:10

NonprayingMantis:
Geektastic:
NonprayingMantis: I tell you what.

I'll get you a broadband connection in a rural area that is just as good and cheap as a central auckland one if you can get me a flat 1000m^2 section of land in central auckland that is just as cheap as a flat 1000m^2 of rural land.

That is not really very relevant, as land value is not particularly dictated by internet speed as is clear from the fact that the 1000 sq metres in Auckland would still be more expensive than the rural equivalent if both had no internet.

I do have a little over 72,000 sq meters 80 km from Welly you can make an offer for though...

the point is that some things are naturally better/cheaper in rural areas, some things natrually better/cheaper in urban areas.

You don't hear urban people moaning about how it is so unfair that rural property is so cheap and demanding that the government should step in to ensure urban property is priced the same as rural, so why do rural people do the same thing with internet, demanding that the government fund rural internet to bring it to the same level as urban?

I don't care who does it - private enterprise or the government. I'm not of the view that governments should step in and do anything much, to be honest. The point is that there is no option.

There are a number of sensible reasons to encourage businesses to be located in more rural areas (reduce commuter traffic, fuel use, public transport pressure, overcrowding, pollution, reduce urban housing issues etc to name a few) and some high dollar businesses based around horticulture, viticulture etc obviously have to be rural.

These businesses all need access good, fast and reliable broadband to prosper in the modern world. It is short sighted to pretend otherwise.

grant_k

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#690120 23-Sep-2012 12:20

I think herein lies the rub:

Geektastic: Wow. That is expensive. I need a data cap at least 5 times the size of what is on offer!!

You are saying that you need a 50GB data cap but don't want to pay any more than you would in an urban area...

Geektastic: ...
some high dollar businesses based around horticulture, viticulture etc obviously have to be rural.

These businesses all need access good, fast and reliable broadband to prosper in the modern world. It is short sighted to pretend otherwise.

Explain to me why a horticulture or viticulture-based business would need a 50GB data cap?

10GB would be more than enough for such businesses to do internet banking, email, web browsing and the occasional Skype Video call. Most of the time they are out in their orchards or vineyards doing what needs to be done, rather than sitting at their PC downloading Linux ISOs or whatever ;)

You are using mixed metaphors here; trying to justify your needs for very large quantities of data in a rural environment, by saying that other rural users will have similar needs.

I live in a rural area too, and last month used more than my 10GB data cap for the first time. It cost me $10.50 extra for another 2GB, making my total spend $107 for broadband and phone service. I don't think that's unreasonable considering the idyllic rural location where I live. $96 per month is what it usually costs for 10GB or less, and sure, that's around $25 more than an urban dweller would pay, but it's small change compared to what electricity costs every month, and everybody is stuck with that unless they want to go off-grid, which has huge setup costs.

It's all about making a choice for what suits you best, and living within any budgetary constraints which may apply. No amount of whining is going to change any of that.

mckenndk

911 posts

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#690131 23-Sep-2012 12:47

My internet connection up until recently came from a house around 3km down the road using ubiquiti Nanostation M2's which can go up to a good distance (think it was around 5-10KM) and we never had a problem after we got it installed.

My reason was a bit different to yours as we did not want to put a phone line into our flat and our mate down the road was hardly home and did not make good use of his connection we came to the agreement to share the costs.

Our phone was a VOIP phone and we also watched alot of online content with isky without any drop outs.
I bought the kit from gowifi ($318 plus shipping)and if you have a business you can always claim the gst back.

This would be my recommendation if you don't want to go down the mobile way and have a reasonable data cap.Even get your own phone line put into the other location so its your connection and no fighting over bills or having to get the other persons to call the support company.

The longest link I have used with ubiquiti kit was 20km with a rocket and a 1m dish, it was still working even though one end had about 3cm of ice on it.

Dion

raytaylor

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#690327 23-Sep-2012 22:23

Explain to me why a horticulture or viticulture-based business would need a 50GB data cap?

10GB would be more than enough for such businesses to do internet banking, email, web browsing and the occasional Skype Video call. Most of the time they are out in their orchards or vineyards doing what needs to be done, rather than sitting at their PC downloading Linux ISOs or whatever ;)

Taylor Communications installed broadband service into the houses on two rural stations this month. Both were not because the farmer / landowner wanted broadband, but because his staff did.

Both had a number of cottages for the staff and both were finding it difficult to attract staff to work on the stations because they were stuck with farmside.

Ray Taylor

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