Shortening the DSL loop on a long driveway

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#1113081 21-Aug-2014 19:05

PhantomNVD: Any reason a POE ethernet link via the conduit (if found) wouldn't be a best and cheapest method?

At roughly 200m, even with an extra switch midway, a gigabit router and cat5e should easily manage the distance?

on the note of this, would this be a valid alternative to consider (just trying to organize all the options, pros and cons etc)

ild assume instead of a switch midway, and the fact that theres POE going over it, would mean ild be looking at a POE extender rather than a switch.

maybe something like this? http://www.axis.com/products/pol/poe_extender/

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hio77

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#1113135 21-Aug-2014 20:14

Hate double posting on here, but since the edit button has gone away...

The other thing to look at, would be what modem is best for this.

Since its quite a hike away, wouldnt really want to be wondering up to it to reboot it (although solution to this would probably be rebooting the PoE Injector instead..), Would be looking at running in Bridged mode, to a router (or pfsense if i can get away with it..)

Looking around, the Draytek Vigor 130 and the ZyXEL P870H-51a v2 often pop up as best options.

I do recall there being a few issues with the Vigor 130 and bridging awhile back, has this come right now?

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michaelmurfy

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#1113140 21-Aug-2014 20:23

Cheapest option:

Run ToughCable down the driveway.
Install a couple of these: http://www.gowifi.co.nz/mikrotik-routerboard/mikrotik-integrated-solutions/mikrotik-802.11bgn-mini-ap.html down the driveway, power using PoE (I have some grunty PoE injectors if you want some).
Daisychain these, down to the ETP in weatherproof housing.
Using the PoE out port of the 2nd one you could always use the 22v to power something at the end (like a VDSL router) in weatherproof housing.
Put the midspan one in switch mode, set the same WiFi name on each one (for the hell of it) and have WiFi down the driveway.

OK maybe not the cheapest but would be pretty easy to do, this way you have Ethernet right up-to the house and can reboot the far router by just power-cycling the PoE injector. I also have a spare Draytek DV130 if you want it, would recommend pairing this with a routerboard at the end.

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hio77

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#1113144 21-Aug-2014 20:32

michaelmurfy: Cheapest option:

Run ToughCable down the driveway.
Install a couple of these: http://www.gowifi.co.nz/mikrotik-routerboard/mikrotik-integrated-solutions/mikrotik-802.11bgn-mini-ap.html down the driveway, power using PoE (I have some grunty PoE injectors if you want some).
Daisychain these, down to the ETP in weatherproof housing.
Using the PoE out port of the 2nd one you could always use the 22v to power something at the end (like a VDSL router) in weatherproof housing.
Put the midspan one in switch mode, set the same WiFi name on each one (for the hell of it) and have WiFi down the driveway.

OK maybe not the cheapest but would be pretty easy to do, this way you have Ethernet right up-to the house and can reboot the far router by just power-cycling the PoE injector. I also have a spare Draytek DV130 if you want it, would recommend pairing this with a routerboard at the end.

wifi down the drive is very tempting, if not for the kicks of it. depending on the range of it the closest neighbours might just be able to prod!

I love the off hand suggestion ;)

as it is, to cover the whole house sufficiently, there is 3 APs going (given not quite in Key locations, but thats ok..)

the DV130 is rather tempting if the bridging now works on it, would defiantly be looking to replace the current "router" at the other end (Vigor2710ne ... one of my more hated routers to use - but thats a story for another thread that already exists here from a few years ago.)

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hio77

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#1113171 21-Aug-2014 21:46

Ok,

so doing some rough calculations, Based on what's been suggested here.. but unsure sure if I have the correct gear for PoE.

Based on all gear GoWifi (aside from the MX-2Wire which is from wirednz) sell for simplicity, and based on inclusive of GST.

Looking at the Vigor 130, ild need to support a 13.2W Max Draw, 12V/1A Feed.

Also making the assumption any rj45 crimper will do fine on the Tough-cable, if i need special ones, will have to toss that in too.

Going the VDSL Extender Route

Mobotix MX-2 wire - $1000~ - i suspect given prices quoted earlier in thread, this is able to be gotten cheaper however.
Universal PoE Splitter 5-12V - $45
48V POE all in one 20W unit with AC power cord - $64
Ubiquiti TOUGHCable Pro Outdoor Shielded Ethernet Cable 305M - $275 (Pricing it up, its cheaper to go with a box rather than Per meter.)
Tough Cable RJ45 Shielded Connector - would grab a handful of these, never know if we would need a few more so looking at about 10 of them, $10~
And then whatever the watertight Enclosure at the road takes. - im not a builder.. im not going to begin to work this out, and im sure parents would enjoy the "little" project.

About $1.4K Plus the extras.

Going the Ethernet, with a PoE extender In the Middle.

Veracity OUTREACH Max 100m External LAN/POE Extender - $455~
As An alternative, Veracity OUTREACH Max 100m Indoor LAN/POE Extender - $305~ With an Watertight Enclosure built for this Midway.
Universal PoE Splitter 5-12V - $45
48V POE all in one 20W unit with AC power cord - $64
Ubiquiti TOUGHCable Pro Outdoor Shielded Ethernet Cable 305M - $275 (Pricing it up, its cheaper to go with a box rather than Per meter.)
Tough Cable RJ45 Shielded Connector - would grab a handful of these, never know if we would need a few more so looking at about 10 of them, $10~
And then whatever the watertight Enclosure at the road takes. - im not a builder.. im not going to begin to work this out, and im sure parents would enjoy the "little" project.

Going with the Outdoor Version, About $850
Or going with the Indoor Version and a house for it midway, About $700

Yet to price up Wireless hops along, but i suspect that will be out of the question ;)

So is my Product Selection Correct with what we would be looking at?

And heres my Oversimplified Explanation of what we would be looking at.. Excuse the black text, saved the flat image without thinking....

Drew this up earlier, so its before the suggestion of wireless APs.

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seatil

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#1113254 22-Aug-2014 08:55

I do recall there being a few issues with the Vigor 130 and bridging awhile back, has this come right now?

The 130's bridge mode works, but it's a pain in the rear to get the required options to "stick" - they have a tendency to reset in the GUI if you so much as sneeze near it.

Please do let us know how you go with the project, and which option you end up with. I'd be especially interested as we're in a not too dissimilar situation where we could more than halve our loop length by terminating the VDSL down at the farm gate instead of at the house.

nitrotech

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#1113273 22-Aug-2014 09:06

seatil:

I do recall there being a few issues with the Vigor 130 and bridging awhile back, has this come right now?

The 130's bridge mode works, but it's a pain in the rear to get the required options to "stick" - they have a tendency to reset in the GUI if you so much as sneeze near it.

Please do let us know how you go with the project, and which option you end up with. I'd be especially interested as we're in a not too dissimilar situation where we could more than halve our loop length by terminating the VDSL down at the farm gate instead of at the house.

That's interesting - I did have to change my settings from the ones that snapper recommended however it's rock solid been online since January and with 2 different providers in that time and it's perfect in bridge.

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wellygary

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#1113301 22-Aug-2014 09:37

Arn't you putting the cart a bit before the horse here and please dont shoot me for it, but do you know what the real world performance will be?

I know everyone on GZ loves to squeeze the most out of what they have, but do you have any idea on what the actual performance data will be?

Have you actually got an estimate of what the VDSL speed is likely to be at the boundry?,
Also what would be the VDSL speed at the house be if you left the 200m of driveway cable in the link?

Surely you need to know how much "driveway loss" there is before going and spending real $$$ to lower it,

ie if you are likely to get 20-30mbs at the boundry and you will lose 5mbs to get it to the house, is it worth spending over $1000 to imrpove it?

I'm not saying what you are doing is not going to improve the service, but if the difference was from 25mbs to 20mbs would it matter?

hio77

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#1113342 22-Aug-2014 10:41

wellygary:

Arn't you putting the cart a bit before the horse here and please dont shoot me for it, but do you know what the real world performance will be?

I know everyone on GZ loves to squeeze the most out of what they have, but do you have any idea on what the actual performance data will be?

Have you actually got an estimate of what the VDSL speed is likely to be at the boundry?,
Also what would be the VDSL speed at the house be if you left the 200m of driveway cable in the link?

Surely you need to know how much "driveway loss" there is before going and spending real $$$ to lower it,

ie if you are likely to get 20-30mbs at the boundry and you will lose 5mbs to get it to the house, is it worth spending over $1000 to imrpove it?

I'm not saying what you are doing is not going to improve the service, but if the difference was from 25mbs to 20mbs would it matter?

I have a general idea at what end of the vdsl scale it would be, and 200M is a pretty sizeable amount in vdsl reach.

but yes, absolutely this is before the cart. thats why im looking at all the options now, so hopefully a month down the track when the connection is live, we can look at real world performance and discuss implementing a solution.

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ghettomaster

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#1113371 22-Aug-2014 11:05

TimA: Yeah little jump i suppose. Like my little jump. 19Mb/s to 70Mb/s

That's cool. Do you use it, though?

ghettomaster

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#1113391 22-Aug-2014 11:25

wellygary:

Arn't you putting the cart a bit before the horse here and please dont shoot me for it, but do you know what the real world performance will be?

I know everyone on GZ loves to squeeze the most out of what they have, but do you have any idea on what the actual performance data will be?

Have you actually got an estimate of what the VDSL speed is likely to be at the boundry?,
Also what would be the VDSL speed at the house be if you left the 200m of driveway cable in the link?

Surely you need to know how much "driveway loss" there is before going and spending real $$$ to lower it,

ie if you are likely to get 20-30mbs at the boundry and you will lose 5mbs to get it to the house, is it worth spending over $1000 to imrpove it?

I'm not saying what you are doing is not going to improve the service, but if the difference was from 25mbs to 20mbs would it matter?

NO! Just when I'd got my popcorn out!

leaplae

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#1113433 22-Aug-2014 13:39

Have you considered a solar setup? May be cheaper than pumping 48v along the line. Single panel, charge controller and a small battery in a waterproof box. get some kind of DC-DC adapter from the battery to power chosen modem.

(This may not work I have never used solar power before).

hio77

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#1113436 22-Aug-2014 13:42

leaplae: Have you considered a solar setup? May be cheaper than pumping 48v along the line. Single panel, charge controller and a small battery in a waterproof box. get some kind of DC-DC adapter from the battery to power chosen modem.

(This may not work I have never used solar power before).

when posting this, solar was something that went through my mind.

being at the end of the driveway, it gets the sun, unlike further down the valley where the house is.

its been a fair few years since i have actually taken notice on how much shading it would likely get.

Ild say solar would be a case of, needing to tend to it every month or so, to insure trees dont block it however... but then im not an expert on solar iver!

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leaplae

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#1113442 22-Aug-2014 13:48

If you went the solar route, you would have to get a PoE injector and push it to halfway anyway to power a Ethernet repeater, however powering everything at the gate would be catered for. I am guessing a modem uses less than 10 watts, so a 50 watt panel would be fine.

hio77

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#1113443 22-Aug-2014 13:53

leaplae: If you went the solar route, you would have to get a PoE injector and push it to halfway anyway to power a Ethernet repeater, however powering everything at the gate would be catered for. I am guessing a modem uses less than 10 watts, so a 50 watt panel would be fine.

assuming the Vigor 130, 13.2W Max Draw, 12V/1A Feed as per the specsheet.

so yeah, 50W would probably do it, im just edgy about the reliance on that damnd yellow thing in the sky thats not warm enough yet!

on a quick google of what a 50W solar option would be, im beginning to question if cheaper than PoE - not that that's an issue, its options! which is exactly what im after!

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